Can I get an atheists perspective to this problem?

Question

I'm just hoping someone can help me understand this beyond my limited religious thinking (I'm being serious).

My sister and her family have come to visit and are staying with my parents. My brother-in-law is an atheist, my sister is agnostic. Both were raised LDS(Mormon) and were mormon until a little less than 2 years ago. My sister told my mom about a month ago that she would go to church with her while they were here. My mom made matching dresses from my sister's 3 girls and for my 2 girls. She was hoping to take pics and then just go to sacrament meeting, not the whole sunday services. My sister told her they were going yesterday. This morning, my brother-in-law said he didn't want his kids going to church because he thinks it will be too confusing for them to have gone in the past, quit going, and then to go today. His girls want to go show off their dresses, but their dad has said no. Right now there are hurt feelings on both sides. I'm looking for some perspective so that I

can be more understanding. My mom is upset. My brother in law is mad that my mom is upset. My neices are upset because they wanted to go with their grandma and cousins. I'm just looking for some perspective here that will help me be more understanding to all.

BTW, the girls are 8, 5 and 3.

Thanks!

My mom wouldn't have been upset if they had said from the beginning that they weren't going to go. But they told her they would go.

It's more of a question of right now I'm feeling like it's really unfair to tell your kids, "No, you can't go to church." I just feel like they should have some say in it since they were included in the discussion. That's where I'm looking for perspective.

Answer 1

Well you know I am no atheist, but I gotta answer. I see a lot of fear in the answers from some of these atheists that tells me they are not so solid in their beliefs. Trying to repress a child's ability to go to church will most likely be expressed later in life through that child's actions. I don't think adults give kids enough credit for how smart they really are. I remember as a kid thinking I couldn't wait til I was grown up, cuz I was never gonna go to church. Of course that feeling didn't last, but it was there sometimes. I usually went on my own. There were many times as a kid when I was the only member of my family at church. Your bro-in-law has some unresolved issues that he is projecting onto his kids. If his stand on atheism was sincere he wouldn't have created such a problem. He is trying to control his own fears by controlling what his kids do. Whatever the belief system it is emotionally and mentally unhealthy to act that way. An anybody who has been to a Mormon church would know that the kids would have been fine. We are not a church bred in fear and damnation. The thing that sucks is that when everyone is trying to have their way it is the kids that suffer.

Answer 2

Although I'm not atheist or agnostic, I'm still going to answer....

The way I see it, your bro-in-law has countered his wife's agreements...

I think these two need to talk about it and decide what they're going to do. If she agreed to go to church without speaking to her husband, I can see why he would be upset. She committed the family to something and he didn't have any input. I think your mom, and the two of them need to sit down and decide what to do for this time, and in the future, your sister and husband need to make decisions like this ahead of time, so false hopes aren't raised.

On the other hand, if he had agreed and has since changed his mind, then he should just deal. Everyone made plans according to that, and he shoulda thought of it earlier.



I personally don't see the problem in going to Sacrament Meeting- it's a whopping hour that they're going to sit there and look pretty. Sacrament Meeting doesn't exactly require a lot of participation (and your bro-in-law should know this). The girls are going to remember today more for the anger involved. They may even associate bad feelings with going to church, and I feel that is more damaging than sitting on a bench for an hour and being "indoctrinated."

If they end up going to church, suggest that your nieces' parents take them aside and discuss what was taught, said, etc. That will minimize the effect your brother-in-law wishes to avoid. ("Experts" have suggested this technique in relathionship to TV viewing- kids will remember and typically side with Mom and Dad in their perceptions of what is shown and inadvertently taught via TV shows.)

Answer 3

I can understand both points of view. First issue is that your sister told your Mom they would go. Now her husband says no. It would be nice if your sister spoke to her husband and explained to him that she already commited to this. If your sister is not going to take a stand then you as a family have to decide if you should push it. It will put your sister in an akward position if you do.
Second. Your brother in law is the father of these kids and is entiltled to have his opinion. It seems that he is a little bitter towards religion and may have some good reasons behind it. Some people have had religion pounded into them and rebel as soon as they get the chance, this may be the case for him. Other people feel that religion is for weak people who cannot depend on themselves and look to God to solve problems.
Bottom line is this. The family united is the ultimate goal. Sometimes we have to sacrafice what we want to bring every one closer together. You and your mother can still dress the girls up and take them for photos and out to lunch or something so they can wear their dresses. By doing this you would respect the wishes of their father, have fun with the kids in their dresses and preserve the family all at the same time.
People go to church to worship God, the church group is a support system to help people stay firm in their beliefs. It is like a weekly refresher course. You are surrounded by hundreds of others who have been taught the same things as you have been. They unite to build strength. If you did not believe in God it would be the last place you would need to be.

I say take the high road. Let your brother in law know that you respect his decision and let your sister off the hook for her promise. Build the family.

Answer 4

I'm sorry for that unfortunate and uncomfortable family situation.
What your brother in law does not realize is that he is making this into more of an issue than necessary. First of all, if he was against this he should have brought it up on Saturday night after the girls were sleeping, and looked for a resolution without involving children.
Now EVERYONE is upset and the girls may be more confused now because what was more of a social outing (most young children don't even pay attention in church anyway), will now turn into a religious issue I bet.
I hope for your sake it turns out OK, but I believe that your brother-in-law is totally in the wrong here. I don't say that because I think going to church is is the right or wrong move, I say that because of the manner in which he did this.

Answer 5

I don't think the girls will be confused by going to church and showing off their dresses. What will confuse and hurt them is the arguing and divisions being caused. If their dad is ok putting them thought that and not worried about confusing them, then I don't see how going to church with Grandma will hurt.

I am not trying to pry, but this sounds like a power play. I hope it is not. Is their dad upset about something else and using the girls as pawns to make a statement? I hope not. I will tell you from personal experience, that it one day the girls will see and their parents will have some hard questions to answer and hopefully it won't be too late to mend bridges. (I was in a similar situation as a girl.) Why not let the girls go with Grandma (and Grandpa) and build a fond memory rather than what is going on now.

Answer 6

It sounds like your brother-in-law wasn't part of the original decision to send kids to church with your mom. Or he was told about it & didn't actually listen (like my husband does.) Once he actually processed it, he decided it was not ok with it. He's their parent too & he's a separate person from your sister. You can't expect them to always agree on everything.

Your mom should have respected their decision to stop going in the first place & not be putting extra pressure by making church dresses. And she obviously knows he's atheist & would have stronger feelings about church.. Your mom should have talked with your brother-in-law directly.

Your mom wanted to make matching outfits that is fine- they can be for a nice dinner for the family or whatever- it doesn't have to be to go to church. And there is no reason why the girls can't wear their dresses for pictures together.

All these expectations, pressures and hurt feelings, they sure aren't very Christ-like. If your mom is trying to show a good example, she needs to stop with the matching dresses and pressure and just give love.

And also, your sister has the right to change her mind & she probably was just trying to keep the peace & keep your mom happy anyways.

There must be a lot of tension & anger right now. Remember its between all of them and try not to let yourself get too drawn into it. Try to focus on making the day nice for your girls and their cousins.

Best of luck! Thinking of you!

Answer 7

To help you put this in a similar framework that might make a little more sense to you from your perspective:
Imagine if instead of Athiests or Agnostics, they were of a different religion - say Jewish.
Then it might make sense that one of them would be uncomfortable with thier children attending a service for another religion. Feeling that it may be both hypocritical on their part, and confusing for the children.
Try agreeing on some sort of non-religious family outing, like a picnic or something where the girls can all get dressed up together, and no-one is made to feel uncomfortable.

Answer 8

Let's pull religion entirely out of the equation.

Your sister said they'd go. Your mom put a bunch of work into special outfits. The kids want to go. Now, suddenly, the dad doesn't want them to go.

Question: Did he know about the agreement by his wife that they would go? If not, she should have told him. If so, he's changed his mind and is being a jerk.

In my opinion, plans were made, work was done, let the kids go and show off thier outfits, Dad doesn't have to go.

I was raised by an athiest and an agnostic. I went to various churchs occasionally with various friends and family at holidays and when spending the night and such. I never found it confusing, although I did always think church was pretty boring. I never felt confused about any of it and continue to have an open mind and exploratory attitude about the faith of others.

I think your brother in law is being a jerk.

Answer 9

I'm an atheist with kids, so I'll try to give a viewpoint based on my own experiences with religion and so forth.

Children, particularly young ones, generally believe whatever adults tell them. If you bring kids to a church and the priest/pastor/etc. talks about God, what God is, and what God wants people to do, kids will take that as truth just as much as they'll take "jumping out the window will hurt you" as truth. To then be told by their parents that this is not truth is difficult enough for them. To be brought back to the church again makes things even more confusing. They are being brought by their parents to listen to stuff that their parents have told them is incorrect, even though the person saying it insists that it is true.

However, I would disagree somewhat with your brother-in-law. I believe that with proper guidance, children are able to comprehend the idea that different people believe different things. I grew up with religiously mixed friends, and I never had a problem understanding that one kid was Jewish, another Buddhist, and another Catholic. Really, I didn't think about it too much. I've brought my kids to church with my family and have not had problems (though they were a bit young to really care what was happening much anyway).

But I can also understand his point of view. This society heavily favors religious thinking, and it can be very difficult to bring kids up in a way that accepts that without being part of it.

Answer 10

Your sister and brother-in-law should have made their intentions clear from the beginning. But as it is, why not just take the family out for a nice breakfast so the kids can show off their new clothes?
Church isn't supposed to be about showing off your fancy new clothes anyway, is it? Or maybe it is...