Atheists, What is the universe expanding into?

Question

We know that the Universe has not been here forever. We must therefore conclude that before time, space and matter existed, nothing existed. However to say that nothing exists is a paradox, it is impossible for nothing to "exist". Since we can all agree that it is impossible that nothing exists, what did exist before space time and matter?

It is not reasonable to conclude that a "primordial state" existed for eternity and then began expanding. Since eternity never ends the "primordial state" will not ever begin expansion.

What predates the "extremely hot and dense state of unknown characteristics"?

What hidden force began the great "cosmic inflation"?

What is the origin of that which predates a definable existence?

How do you suppose that this first atom changed from a static state that existed in an indefinable locality, into many various atoms existing in many various states and formed all the different elements and physics that make up reality?

What contains the universe? What is the universe expanding into? Nothing? Something? What?

I figure that since a belief in God is so illogical, you all have great answers to these questions.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_space
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primordial_elements
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_principle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_inflation

Honestly, I just get a kick out of your answers.

Wikipedia isn't so bad, there are external links to verify.

Ya see… since I don't know the answers to these questions and neither does anyone else, belief in God isn't so crazy after all.

Answer 1

Isn't it odd how some Atheist's that answer this question can believe in and accept infinite space as existing and being real but they can't believe in an infinite God. Why doesn't it work both ways?

Answer 2

One, you figure wrong since I'm a computer scientist, not a physicist or a cosmologist.

Two, the statement "We must therefore conclude that before time, space and matter existed, nothing existed." is completely unfounded. You may think that nothing existed at one point, but there is no reason that it *must* be so. The thought that there once was nothing is purely a religious concept. By the way, this assumption that there must have been nothing at one point renders the rest of your argument pointless or unsupportable.

If you really are interested in what the facts are, prepare your self for a long journey in to mathematics, astronomy, physics and cosmology. Simplified explanations can be found if you look at layman's versions of M-theory/superstring theory.

Edit:
By the way, it is probable that the singularity or "big bang" was not a singularity in that there may have been and continue to be such occurances. This implies an infinite amount f "universes". I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine the implications (hint, it makes anything probable in each "universe")

Answer 3

You're incorrect in saying that nothing existed before the BB because there literally was nothing. Now this doesn't mean that "nothing existed" infering that "nothing is existing" it simply means there was nothing, hence there was nothing to exist.

Like it or not, there is nothing outside the universe because the universe is all there is. If the universe contains the sum total of everything that exists or has existed then there simply isn't anything else "outside" the universe as there is simply no outside.

As for what caused the BB, it's still unknown. It also wasn't a single atom, but the totality of the universe crushed down into a singularity. At least that's the current theory.

Answer 4

Well this should probably be asked in the Science section. I assume you are not looking for a real answer though. Only to justify your own beliefs. What you are asking cannot be known by anyone at this point. We just have not have enough time to figure this out. I believe that people who study these areas would have a better answer than most in the R&S section though. I personally think that the Universe is on a cyclical cycle. Expanding until it reaches the point where it collapses again and starts all over. From my limited experience almost everything works in a circular fashion. I believe the Universe does as well.

Answer 5

The universe is a 'closed manifold', meaning that that's finite in length yet has no extremely obstacles. slightly like the floor of the Earth, which for sure isn't limitless even nonetheless you may trip alongside the floor continuously with out achieving the 'end' of the Earth. the obtrusive distinction is that the floor of a sphere would not have as many dimensions, however the uncomplicated concept is the same. So it is not as though there is an extremely barrier.

Answer 6

You seem to have difficulty with the concept of infinity. The size of the universe is infinite. The spanning distance across the known particles in the universe is finite. When people say the universe is expanding, they mean the distance spanning between the furthest stars, not the volume of space containing the universe.

Answer 7

You should visit Wikipedia some time. That's where all science stems from.
I stopped reading after your first straw-man. Did I need to continue?

Edit: Why does your belief in your god not seem crazy? Would you then agree that it is not crazy to believe that Mike Tyson made all of this happen?

And to Like A Rolling Stone: Time and the universe exist. That much is fairly obvious to most of us. So then you think it logical to say a god exists? It is logical to think that the universe is a type of constant based on the rules of the universe that we have observed. That makes it equally logical to believe that whatever you can think up is a constant as well? Why is that? Just cuz?

Answer 8

how the hell would I know

wouldn't you be better asking an astrophysicist - in fact why don't you ask your question in the science section (unless of course you're too scared to).

When you've done that you can come back and provide some actual evidence that your god exists =) (FYI "I dunno how this works therefore there must be a god" is not evidence. It's a statement of ignorance then shoving a diety in to fill the gap in knowledge. it's not much different to primitives thinking that a god caused a volcano to erupt)

Answer 9

From one of your links:

"In physics, the word nothing is not used in any technical sense. A region of space is called a vacuum if it does not contain any matter. But it can contain physical fields. In fact, it is practically impossible to construct a region of space which contains no matter or fields, since gravity cannot be blocked and all objects at a non-zero temperature radiate electromagnetically. However, supposing such a region existed, it would still not be "nothing", since it has properties and a measurable existence as part of the quantum-mechanical vacuum."

Hey... doesn't that mean that there's never "nothing"?

Answer 10

"We know that the Universe has not been here forever."
Actually it probably has.

No logical thinking Atheist will say that the universe came from nothing. That is something theists like to say that we say, but we don't. In reality, it is the creation theory that indeed says that all of this came from absolutely nothing. According to creation, God snapped his fingers and there it was, from nothing.

But Atheists know that matter cannot be created. Therefore, we know it did not come from NOTHING.