Catholics only please: In the history of Catholicism, were there ever really bad popes?

Question

I noticed in the list of popes there were some who were not canonized saints. I have also read about Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia). A lot of bad things are written about him.

How does the existence of bad popes affect the Church's claim to being the true Church?

I want to know the Catholic Church's position on this and the opionion of Catholics. I don't want the opinion of Catholic bashing fundies. So please, if you are not Catholic do not answer.

Muggin_girl, Pope Joan is a myth. She is not in the list of popes. Obviously you are not Catholic.

Apparently, even if I specify that the question is meant only for Catholics, some nutcases still pop in. Oh well, they are nut cases, so what can I do?

Answer 1

Yes, there were bad popes. For example, the pope during the time of Martin Luther had several women.

The Catholic Church is a Church of sinners and much suffering. It is also a Church of saints and scholars. The story of the Catholic Church is a divine and human story. The Church is divine in its Founder, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the only founder of a religion who claimed to be God, and proved that claim by rising from the dead. The Catholic Church is also human - afflicted with all the frailties of human nature - the sin and suffering, but also the saintliness and scholarship. When the Church was failing God, God raised up prophets or reformers. A reformer is one who changes people's hearts, not revealed doctrine. There have been thousands of great reformers in the Catholic Church, like St. Francis of Assisi, St. Clare, St. Benedict, St. Teresa of Avila, etc.

Also, there have been several periods of time in the history of the Church where more than one person claimed to be Pope at the same time. Those individuals who were not legitimately elected are called anti-Popes (false Popes) and there have been about 17 of them. The first was about the year 252 after the persecution by Roman Emperor Decius. Once the persecution ended a dispute arose about whether those who had denied their faith could be readmitted to the Church. Pope Cornelius and Bishop Cyprian of Carthage taught that bishops could grant God's forgiveness even for serious sins, like apostasy, even though the penances were long and severe. A party of rigorists, headed by the Roman priest Novatian, advocated permanent exclusion of all apostates from the Church. Claiming that Pope Cornelius had betrayed his trust, Novatian had himself elected as Pope by his followers.

The most memorable period lasted from 1378 to 1417 and is known as the great western schism. During this period of time, Western Christendom was torn between two, and at times three, rival claimants to the papacy. Each of the rival claimants reflected national interests with the division initially taking place shortly after the death of Pope Gregory XI and the election of Urban VI as his successor. The disputes were finally resolved at the Council of Constance (1414-1417)

Muggin
That story about a female pope has no basis in truth or in fact. Some time ago some misguided writers wrote of a "Pope Joan" who was supposed to have reigned from 855 to 857. The Encyclopedia Britannica says that she is pure myth. The Oxford Dictionary of the Popes, written by J. N. D. Kelly (a Protestant) says the legend of a woman Pope "scarcely needs painstaking refutation today, for not only is there no contemporary evidence for a female Pope at any of the dates suggested for her reign, but the known facts of the respective periods makes it impossible to fit one in."

Answer 2

there have been relatively few bad popes in the history of the church, the examples elude me now but it is very few. the person that is pope can be a horrible person or a decent person and can be shrouded in personal controversy, however this only reflects upon the person and not the church or the position of the papacy. we are all sinners on everey level in the church ie. the laity the priests the deacons,pope etc. but when the pope is teaching on behalf of the church he cannot be in error. when we have had bad popes the teaching and the truth of the church was never diminished or changed. catholic doctrine from the time christ established it is the same yesterday today and forever just like christ.

the church is the bride of christ, unblemished and perfect, its members are not perfect and often are with blemish. jesus promised us that the bride, his church, would be guided and protected by the holy spirit until the end, read about church teaching and you will find that the truth of the church is in perfect harmony for 2000+ years despite some controversy caused by some of its members.
here are some sites that may help you
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
http://www.salvationhistory.com/
http://www.askmeaboutgod.org/

the last site offered has a section where you can e mail a question pertainng to the faith which will be answered by an expert apologist, you can ask this and other questions of interest for more catholic insights. hope this has helped and god bless.

Answer 3

Yes there were a few bad popes. A few led immoral personal lives, though most have been very holy men. The fact that a particular pope has not been canonized is not an indication that he was a bad pope. Even the worst popes never taught anything contrary to the revealed truth. The Holy Spirit working through the charism of infallibility won't allow that, for the good of the entire Church. The fact that a few popes were not morally good men doesn't have any effect on the historical fact that the Catholic Church is the one and only Church founded by Jesus Christ for all mankind. All the popes have been men and all men are sinners. The Church doesn't teach otherwise. So, the fact that a few popes were partucularly bad sinners doesn't change a thing. Don't forget, the first pope, one of the great saints of the Church, denied knowing Christ three times.

Answer 4

1.“I do not believe in the infallibility of the Pope, and I don't think I would ever be able to. It just doesn't make sense to me given the history of the Church.” When I converted this was somewhat of a stumbling block to me also. I studied the issue and realized how rarely the Pope has exercised this privilege which is only a couple of times in 2000 years and it was done wisely. I no longer have a problem but believe when used wisely it is aq benefit to the Church and the faithful. 2.” I really do not like the current ultraconvservativism of the Church. Like the way some Catholics were told they couldn't vote for Obama, and the whole situation down in Brazil, and the whole birth control issue. It makes me really uncomfortable. “ This is something I did not have a problem with as I have always been in support of life. If one believes in murder of humanities most helpless and innocent, they really are not Catholic. The Church is consistent in its support of life. This is something that brought me to the Church after being a Protestant whose church continued a slide towards worldliness and apostasy. 3. “I'm something of a universalist, I believe that Jesus' death on the cross took away the sins of the world, and I don't believe people have to do a certain amount of good things and not do a certain amount of bad things to go to Heaven.” Well, the Church does not teach works salvation so you should not have a problem with Catholic soteriology teaching. The Church does teach that mortal sin separates one from the Church and consequently from their eternal destiny in Christ. 4. “I don't really believe in "holy water" or even the idea that any one object is more holy than another... with the exception of the Eucharist.” I really do not think this will be a problem after you have studied the issue. The Bible and the Church teaches that there is a joining of the spiritual and the physical associated with grace. It is not a difficult concept to grasp. It all has to do with how God chooses to provide His grace to mankind. 5. “I REALLY don't believe that sex is only for procreation. I think that within a marital relationship, sex is a beautiful and intensely spiritual thing.” You are in perfect union with the Church on this issue except perhaps that we should not interfere with God’s will. God bless! In Christ Fr. Joseph

Answer 5

I am a Catholic, however, not terribly educated on the Pope issue. Yes, there were some bad popes, the devil has tried to get into the Catholic Church and destroy it, even through some of our past Popes. But Satan was not successful, only successful in splitting the church into other denominations. As for being the true Church, the Catholic church was founded by Apostle Peter of the Bible. I have not read of any other Christian demonination being founded before St. Peter or by St. Peter, so I would have to support that the Catholic church is the original church of St. Peter.

And if I may say so, there have been really evil ministers, preachers, bishops, etc. in every denomination of Christian churches, not just in the Catholic Church.

Answer 6

Yes, there have been bad popes. Popes are only human, after all. They all sin, to varying degrees, and some sinned a LOT.

However, none of the bad popes ever instituted any decrees that "ruined" the Catholic faith or made it into something other than the Holy Apostolic Church, because as Jesus promised us, He established His Church on apostolic succession, beginning with Peter, and He will not let "the gates of hell prevail against it."

Answer 7

THERE WERE TONS OF BAD POPES. The churches position is that they suck and asked everyone else for forgiveness. In fact john Paul 2 asked muslims for forgivness for the Crusades. Look at Popes during and before the Renaissance. AlexanderVI was the worst but there were many more.

Answer 8

yes there have been some popes that have not been as good to the cause as others. luckily we have a God of forgiveness and renewal. I am Catholic, but I don't buy into the idea that the papal office is inerrant - scripture is clear that all fall short.

Answer 9

Popes are the head of an institution that have been controlling people like the shepherd controls his sheep for centuries without respect for human life and have also been bathing in the blood of millions of innocents.
There is no such thing as a good pope.

Answer 10

This one?