f NASCAR is so fair and equal compared to F1 why do so few teams keep winning?

Question

Rousch, Hendrick and Gibbs seem to win pretty much everything and domininate the top 20 positions, with the odd driver from another few teams breaking it up a bit. From what i can see it seems to have very little to do with driver skill and all to do with equipment and who can set up their car best. Watched the truck race and Villeneuve was going backwards fast until he changed the set up of his truck at the stops. Then all of a sudden he was able to lead. Now excuse my ignorence but I very much doubt Villeneuve became a better driver in the space of one stop. It had nothing to do with driving talent. It was all to do with how his car was set up.

At least in road courses even if your car is slower you will be able to compensate through superior skills which clearly isnt the case in oval racing. If it is to do with driver skill how come a driver in a poor handling car almost never wins? Only on the NASCAR road courses have i seen a driver perform well with a bad handling car.

It only makes sense i guess since there are so few variables on an oval circuit. 2-4 corners, many on circuits that are completely flat out, how could it be driver skill? Its purely to do with the speed of the car. And this goes for all oval racing not just NASCAR.

Im not saying F1 is fair because the best teams will generally win in that too but it is at least possible for a driver to do well(relatively) in a poor car. Schumacher and Senna often won in vastly inferior cars, through superior skills behind the wheel. Adrian Sutil ran very well in by far the worst car on the grid in Spa this year. He was overtaking cars much faster than his because he is a good driver.

Ive seen lots of nascar races and the fact of the matter is that Ovals are not hard to master, including indy, dover, martinsville, texas!! They have at most 4 braking points. 4!!!! On a road course they have anything up to 30 turns on a course. All of which have different entry and exit lines, multiple apexs, high and low speed corners and are at least 3miles long. How can you even try to say an oval is as difficult to master?

As for me defending open whell guys i never said open wheel was better. And i hate to break it to you but American open wheel drivers are ****. I dont even rate Tony Stewart, he was nothing special. He won the IRL title against poor opposition. Most of those guys would not make it in F1 or even GP2. Its like saying the best MLS players are as good as the best soccer players in Europe, like the amount of drivers in america compared to those trying road courses all around the world is tiny! More people = more talented drivers overall.

Around the world there are millions of people aspiring to be F1 drivers, this means they drive road courses. Every single road course racers aim when they started was to reach F1 and F1 has a fanbase close to 100times the size of NASCARs. People racing in other forms of road racing are generally guys who werent good enough to be in F1 or didnt get the breaks.

So it would be pretty arrogant of americans to assume that the few thousand who aim to become NASCAR(or IRL) drivers are better than the best of the best from around the world. Do you honestly believe that those nobodies that beat villeneuve in the truck series are actually better than him? Im not saying there arent some good drivers because there are but most NASCAR drivers are very average, hell a lot of F1 drivers are average. Only very few are special and even less so in NASCAR since so much less people actually try to get into it.

Answer 1

Oval racing is all about how well the teamwork gels together. You have to make to right adjustments at the right time or you won't stand a chance. The big teams tend to win the most since they have the best guys behind the pitwall.

You're right about road courses being more about the driver...but they still need a good car beneath them.

As for those people bashing F1 and saying the fans haven't watched a NASCAR race...I've followed F1 since 1994 and NASCAR since 2004 (when I've actually been able to watch the races on TV...living 10,000 miles away and all) so that moronic idea can be chucked out the window right there.

NASCAR isn't better than F1 and F1 isn't better than NASCAR. They are two completely different racing series and should be treated (and respected) as such...man I'm sick of hearing this pathetic argument about which has the better drivers *shakes head*

Answer 2

I stopped reading your rant at the claim that most NASCAR races are run flat-out. Clearly your knowledge is limited.

Drivers I have seen do well with loose, badly oversteering cars: Cale Yarborough, Dale Earnhardt, Tim Richmond, Mark Martin, Rusty Wallace, Ricky Rudd, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch.

The importance of driver skill in NASCAR racing has been proven over and over again, whenever two or more drivers share a car during a season. Look up Mark Martin's and David Ragan's record in the #6 Truck last year. Same vehicle, same crew, same crew chief, different results.

I like all motorsports myself, so long as there is close on-track competition. Some race fans seem to confuse "spectator sport" with "religion," claiming that their favorite series is the fountainhead of all driving talent and all other series are populated with idiots. This is foolish. It takes tremendous skill -- although somewhat different sort of skill -- to compete on the top level of any motorsport, whether stock cars, open-wheel cars, dirt-track cars, or drag racing. If it were easy everyone would do it.

Answer 3

I think when it comes to AUTO RACING, the REAL "talent" is in the Pit Crew even though it is the driver that gets all the glory. However there have been real driving talents over the years but they are few and far between.

Also, it is not limited to oval racing because I have seen road races in Indycar races where the track is so narrow that it is absolutely impossible to pass a car that is running well, even if it is quite slower. The only position changes happen on pit stops. Imagine that....

Answer 4

You said it JG. I doubt if even one of the F-1 fans that come here to spew crap has ever seen a complete Nascar race.

I am surprised one even showed his face here since the open wheel guys came in 43rd, 41st, 38th and 39th so far this weekend. They can't even finish a race. I had more confidence in them but I was wrong. They need to race a season in Truck or Busch before being allowed in cup.

Villeneuve said last night that stock car racing was lots harder than F-1. Jeff gordon was certainly right about him needing more experience. He has wrecked several craftsman truck drivers and apologized to them on his way to a 26th place average finish in 7 races in the semi pro minor league truck series. Villeneuve is in the best equipment available in craftsman truck too.

Answer 5

I agree that nascar needs more road courses(maybe cause I live so close to sears point) but last I heard in f1 theres only 2 or 3 teams doing the winning there too, guess its a money thing, go figure!

Answer 6

Why are all F-1 fans inherently ignorant about NASCAR racing?

"Oh, look at the little car zoom around the track. How pretty. Too bad it's not a proper racing car that can not pass, take 30 people to service, and only goes in a circle, like I can do in my car."

That remark about 3 teams winning almost everything........the key word is "Almost." At least in NASCAR, 2 teams didn't win EVERY race............oh gosh...wasn't that what happened in F-1? Seems to me a few years ago, that Schui won every race that he didn't have mechanical troubles (ie...dropped out of the race).

You guys really should come on over here and give it a try. It's really funny that "The best drivers in the world" get their asses handed to them in stock cars on a regular basis. As far as the "no skill" comment goes.....you're showing your ignorance again. I suppose that it take no skill to drive an F-1 car, because they must run flat out all of the time also (sarcasm in case you didn't know it). Even though all we do is "run in circles," you do have to let off the gas, slam on the brakes, and hit a patch of asphalt about 12" wide, in order to get through the corner the same way you did last lap. As far as not being able to compensate, you might want to watch a few more races other than Daytona (from you "all tracks are run flat out" remark, I take it that's the only race you've ever seen). I've seen guys win races on 7 cylenders. I've seen them win races in crashed cars (when was the last time a F-1 car EVER continued after being crashed?). I've seen them win races in cars that just about spun out every lap. I've seen good handling cars go straight to the back.....and I've seen it on road courses too!!! Now WHO can't drive an ill-handling car?

Those F-1 cars are so driver friendly, that just about any moron could put down a decent lap in a decent car.

If what you were saying about Schui was true, how about seeing if he could win a single race in one of the Spyker cars, or even a Super Aguri? I doubt he could do any better than the usual drivers of those cars.

Another thing......about what you said about JV "suddenly becoming a better driver," talent can only overcome so much. I know that all too well. I tried racing a more or less "stock" car against guys that had a lot more horsepower, and I was only able to out-fox them for so long before I got blown off the track. Once I got some better equipment, they couldn't touch me.

edit - Hey bub......why don't you take a little closer look at the car in my avatar. Do you see any fenders on it? NO! Not only that, but there aren't any on my single seater off road racing buggy either. So as for you calling me a **** I don't appreciate it!! I AM AN OPEN WHEELER. What I race is way harder than what any F-1 driver ever thought of. Not only do our cars turn in both directions, we do it on dirt, sand, mud, through river beds, through creeks, and through dust that would choke your car engines to such an extent they would be rendered useless. AND to top it all off, we get airborne doing it. Those F-1 sissies would **** their pants the first time they took a jump at over 100 mph on what amounts to slime.

Traction control? Yeah we have traction control. It's called a foot. You push on the gas, you let off the gas. Automatic shifters? Yep, got those too. You reach down, and through years of practice, you automatically put the transmission in the right gear. All of this is done on a surface that would shake, rattle, and violently tear apart any vehicle that wasn't specially prepared for it, at almost 100 miles per hour, trying to keep your car going in a straight line, or turn the car on the aforementioned slime. And you guys are supposed to be the "good" drivers???

Answer 7

Every Sport has its dominant teams. They rise then fall-rebuild--rise again--Nascar is no different!!!!!

Answer 8

People, people, Can't we all just get along? Besides everybody knows that N.H.R.A. rule's..!!

Answer 9

i coulndnt agree more, even in other sports the bad teams win sometimes.