Catholics did you ever read the book of Colossians Specifically 2:16-20?

Question

Don't comment right away. Please go read it. I am a Catholic too and I find this passage interesting. I wanted to know what you think.

I don't know if you have ever done a Novena but there are Novenas to a few angels. That is why I ask this.

When you get a chance read all of Colossians it's really good.

I am a true Catholic and do not intend to leave my faith of which I have been since I was a child. I do KNOW novena's are intersessory prayers but I did ask about this passage because it made me wonder why bother with a novena when maybe we should just pray straight to God.

Btw, Duff, I do appreciate your post. I have to say though, why I always believed in reciting Novenas is because Jesus tells us to keep on asking until we receive.

Answer 1

Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Colossians
Chapter 2

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths, 17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man seduce you, willing in humility, and religion of angels, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh, 19 And not holding the head, from which the whole body, by joints and bands, being supplied with nourishment and compacted, groweth unto the increase of God. 20 If then you be dead with Christ from the elements of this world, why do you yet decree as though living in the world?




"In meat"... He means with regard to the Jewish observations of the distinction of clean and unclean meats; and of their festivals, new moons, and sabbaths, as being no longer obligatory.

"Willing"... That is, by a self willed, self invented, superstitious worship, falsely pretending humility, but really proceeding from pride. Such was the worship, that many of the philosophers (against whom St. Paul speaks, ver. 8) paid to angels or demons, by sacrificing to them, as carriers of intelligence betwixt God and men; pretending humility in so doing, as if God was too great to be addressed by men; and setting aside the mediatorship of Jesus Christ, who is the head both of angels and men. Such also was the worship paid by the ancient heretics, disciples of Simon and Menander, to the angels, whom they believed to be makers and lords of this lower world. This is certain, that they whom the apostle here condemns, did not hold the head, (ver. 19,) that is, Jesus Christ, and his mediatorship; and therefore what he writes here no way touches the Catholic doctrine and practice, of desiring our good angels to pray to God for us, through Jesus Christ. St. Jerome [Epist. ad Algas.] understands by the religion or service of angels, the Jewish teachers, who sought to subject the new Christians to the observance of the Mosaic law.

Answer 2

Yes, I've read Colossians many times since I became a Christian, and also since I became a Catholic Christian.

For the benefit of those who don't happen to have a Bible next to their computer, I post the NIV version here (The Catholic version is pretty much the same, and I find most non-Catholic Christians are okay with the NIV):

Colossians 2:16-20
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules:

(and since I despise people Scripture out of context, here's the remainder of the chapter:)

21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.


If you are really Catholic, you should know that Catholics do NOT worship angels and a Novena is not a form of worship, it is a form of supplication. Either you have been poorly educated in the Catholic faith or you're not Catholic at all.

As for, "Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow..." -- This is exactly what I witnessed among the leadership of the protestant church I used to attend and one of the reasons why I left. Upon leaving, God showed me the Biblical beauty of the Liturgy and in time, I converted to Catholicism because it is so full of Truth.

I do agree that all of Colossians is really good.

EDITED TO ADD:

If you think a Novena does not include praying straight to God, your education is really pitiful. Please educate yourself so that you can learn what you've been missing.

Answer 3

Prayers like the Hail Mary, novenas, and St. Michael the Archangel prayer, are the same to Catholics as if you called up your friend or relative and asked them to pray for you. The only difference is your asking someone very close to God whom he has shown as a role model for the rest of us.

Answer 4

So what if there are novenas to angels and saints? This passage renounces the WORSHIP of angels and saints, as does the Catholic Church. Don't forget that Paul was writing as a leader in the Catholic Church, and wrote only what the Catholic Church taught. Catholics WORSHIP no-one but God. That doesn't mean we can't pray to the angels and saints, imploring their intercession, as Christians have done from the very beginning. How sad that unauthorized manmade churches have rejected this core belief of full Christianity, along with so many others.

Answer 5

Well Luci i've read every one else's answer here before i submitted my 2 cents. And they're pretty much right (with the exception of the one who calls himself a deacon) but i had a pretty similiar ongoing dispute with my father-in-law, a lay minister in his pentacostal church. The long dispute was (of many) about being baptized in Jesus' name vs. what was written at the end of Matthew 26 'to be baptized in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit'. Turns out he was right that the latter is a misinterpretation so the more i deliberately researched it the more i realized that my Catholic teachings were wholly incorrect. We are not to worship angels, many repititive sayings is of no value. And those who worship mary the same goes for that also. She is mentioned in the Bible as 'a woman who will be highly esteemed' thats all - nothing more. So we are not to pray to angels as they cannot approach the throne of grace and make intercession for us. No one can except Yahsua period. Let me repeat this; No one, not an angel, not mary, no human sainted, cannonized or what have you. No one can approach the throne of God and 'co-sign' our prayers except the Son of God. And what did Yashua say to the pharisees about all thier 'ordinances' the washing of hands and cups... he told them it was of little value because inwardly you are as whited tombs. In other words the things that man finds of value are not the same as what Father says is of value. Catholic, Jew, Gentile etc etc. Yashua had shown no respect of persons (titles).
Good luck on choosing the best answer, everyone here seems to really be on target.

Answer 6

If I understand correctly a novena to angels would basically be prayer or honor to the angels. It seems to me this would be forbidden by the Bible. Everywhere in the Bible where people give honor to angels or try to worship them they are told not to do it. They are told they are just fellow servants.

PaulCyp - Paul had no idea what the RCC was. He was a leader in the church. Not a denomination.

Answer 7

As a former Catholic looking back I remember hearing a priest say that veneration is different than worship, and I just don't see how.

Repetitive prayers, reciting prayers rather than praying my prayers. Yup, I remember those days.

It is the faith behind the words, not the words themselves, that calls on God's mighty power.

Answer 8

I have read all of Colossians, as well as every other book in the Bible.

"Ascetic practices encouraged by the false teachers included subjection of self humbly to their rules, WORSHIP of angels, and cultivation of visions."


We do not worship anyone but God. If you are truly a catholic, you would know this.

Answer 9

I notice that a catholic deacon responded quickly. How interesting. The bible is a very interesting book as you describe. You will probably be encouraged NOT to read it as a catholic. My best friend, who is catholic, started to earnestly read the bible and now he is no longer catholic. He could not harmonize the teachings of catholicism with scripture. I pray you continue your search for truth. God Bless

Answer 10

"it is not merlot and Ritz they are serving; it is the Flesh and Blood of Jesus. No, extremely." " The 14 Stations has no longer something to do with television." powerful. i'm forwarding this to my father. i presumed i stumbled on a loophole when I introduced i'd be giving up meat for Lent one 12 months. My father recommended me that because of the fact that i became a vegetarian, it did no longer count huge form ;).