What do atheists and agnostics think of people like Billy Graham?

Answer 1

I have no beef with Billy Graham.. he's not on television hawking his religion and getting people to call in and donate money to some big church that is more business than church.

Answer 2

Back in the day, Billy Graham was HUGE!

Answer 3

Damn your avatar is extremely sexy. I may be old but I' m not dead.

*drooling*

Ok your question:

I am agnostic deist. Billy Graham is the only preacher I truly respect. He is a fundie sure, but he is not hate filled and stupid like Falwell and Robertson.

Answer 4

I think he's probably a pretty decent guy, and I imagine that in his life, he did considerably more good than harm. Of course I think he's entirely wrong about his core beliefs, but so are a lot of decent people.

Of course most of the anti-atheist Christians here will assume that we "hate him for his beliefs". Funny how we seem to be perfectly okay with the well-behaved people who hold those beliefs.

Answer 5

He's better than the likes of a Falwell or a Robertson in that he seems to dwell on the positive side of people. But in the end they are all the same, spewing fear and ignorance for the sole purpose of bilking millions from their followers. A good term for all the tele-Evangelists would be christian tele-whores.

Answer 6

hahahahahahaha lol hes named after a graham cracker

Answer 7

I thought he was a great speaker and a good man. I didn't buy into most of what he said, but that has nothing to do with the man.

Answer 8

I don't exactly know who he is. So I'll say indifference.

EDIT: I see he's a proselytizer, I'm downgrading him from indifference to mild dislike.

Answer 9

He is funny.
I don't know if he tries to be but he is all the same.

Answer 10

Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn’t straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother’s path to happiness and heaven....
-- Mark Twain


Back in 1994 H. R. Haldeman published his White House diaries in which he revealed a conversation between the Rev. Billy Graham and President Nixon that took place in 1972 about how to deal with the problem of the “satanic Jews” whom Graham felt maintained a “total Jewish domination of the media.” This allegation was completely at odds with the public image America had of Billy Graham and, as would be expected, Graham quickly denounced and denied the statements as outright lies saying, “Those are not my words. I have never talked publicly or privately about the Jewish people, including conversations with President Nixon, except in the most positive terms.”

Flash forward to March 1st of this year and the most recently released Nixon tapes which covered the first six months of 1972. Who’s voice can be heard ranting about the Jewish control of the media? Why, the Rev. Billy Graham’s! Now 83 years old and in failing health, Graham probably didn’t expect to live long enough to have to face up to his previous antisemitic comments. Naturally this man of God, who has come as close as any to being the spiritual leader of America, immediately admitted his failings and his narrow-mindedness and asked for forgiveness for the trust he violated both in the Jewish community and the public at large, right? Right?!?

Don’t be stupid. Of course he didn’t. What he did instead was release a 4 sentence non-apology that neither acknowledged his making the statements at all as well as claiming he had no memory of such a conversation ever happening in the first place. Needless to say, the various Jewish organizations that once counted him as an ally are pissed. And who can blame them in light of statements like:

“I go and I keep friends with Mr. Rosenthal at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And all I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I’m friendly with Israel. But they don’t know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country. And I have no power, no way to handle them, but I would stand up if under proper circumstances.”

Which brings us to yesterday and one more attempt by Graham to issue a slightly more substantial apology to head off the brewing firestorm. “I don’t ever recall having those feelings about any group, especially the Jews, and I certainly do not have them now. My remarks did not reflect my love for the Jewish people. I humbly ask the Jewish community to reflect on my actions on behalf of Jews over the years that contradict my words in the Oval Office that day.” Not exactly a ringing admission of guilt or repentance.

So, what lessons can we take away from all of this? From where I’m standing either Billy Graham was lying on that day back in 1972 and was merely spouting off what he thought the President wanted to hear in order to curry his favor or he’s lying now to try and save his reputation. You might claim he really did feel that way back in 1972, but had a change of heart. If that’s true then why not admit that as being the case instead of lying that he can’t recall the conversation or ever feeling that way about anyone? With the way he’s handling it now he ends up looking like a major hypocrite. His supporters have come out of the woodwork to offer all manner of flimsy rationalizations about the comments he made back in 1972. Stupid stuff like the idea that Mr. Graham was referring throughout his conversation only to those few Jews he considered unethical for distributing pornography. These excuses are piss-poor justifications for the comments Mr. Graham made in 1972 and do little to give the public any good reason to trust anything Graham has ever said. Instead of using the opportunity to admit to his past sins and try to make amends for them, he did what a lot of Christian fundamentalists do when caught with their pants down and try to claim the events never happened even in the face of undeniable proof.
Charisma News Services reported that During a symposium in January 2004 in Orlando, Fla., 50 prominent Charismatic Leaders called on Christian leaders to deem those who demonstrate persistent ungodly behavior as unrepresentative of true Christianity. The invitation-only meeting was hosted by “Ministries Today” magazine, and was moderated by Foursquare leader Jack Hayford, pastor of Church on the Way in Van Nuys, Calif.
The group acknowledged an ethical crisis in the church that is marked by a greater tolerance for sexual infidelity, an increase in divorce “under the guise of commitment to ministry callings,” an “indulgent understanding” of the concept of restoration, and a lack of self-moderation in areas of financial responsibility and extravagance. They attributed the moral breakdown to an increased prevalence in ministry being seen as a profession “in which the importance of success and power outweigh the demands of servanthood and integrity.”
At 84 years of age Billy is still receiving a hundred percent salary of $423,364 and is working less than ten percent of the time! How come?
� Billy Graham Director, Chairman Compensation: $423,364 12/2002
� Luis Palau Evangelistic Association Luis Palau President, CEO Compensation: $175,995 12/2001
� Coral Ridge Ministries Dr. D. James Kennedy President N/A
� In Touch Ministries Charles F. Stanley President Compensation: $108,530 09/2002
� Eternal Word Television Network Michael Warsaw President Compensation: $83,772
� Insight for Living Cynthia Swindoll President Compensation: $131,402
� ORAL ROBERTS UNIVERSITY Richard Roberts Chairman, CEO Compensation: $55,000
(Richard’s wife Lindsey also receives compensation, Television and Radio programs reach an estimated 800,000 per week.)
� Jack Van Impe Ministries International Jack Van Impe President Compensation: $144,974 12/2002
� Turning Point for God David P. Jeremiah President Compensation: $100,179 12/2001
� Three Angels Broadcasting Network Danny Shelton President Compensation: $53,022 12/2002
� The Good News Broadcasting Association Woodrow Kroll President Compensation: $92,028 06/2002
� Ligonier Ministries Robert C. Sproul President Compensation: $198,269 12/2002
CEO Pay: The person identified as a charity’s CEO is the individual employed full-time to lead the organization on a day-to-day basis for the accounting period reflected by the charity’s income statement
Charisma News Services reported that During a symposium in January 2004 in Orlando, Fla., 50 prominent Charismatic Leaders called on Christian leaders to deem those who demonstrate persistent ungodly behavior as unrepresentative of true Christianity. The invitation-only meeting was hosted by “Ministries Today” magazine, and was moderated by Foursquare leader Jack Hayford, pastor of Church on the Way in Van Nuys, Calif.
The group acknowledged an ethical crisis in the church that is marked by a greater tolerance for sexual infidelity, an increase in divorce “under the guise of commitment to ministry callings,” an “indulgent understanding” of the concept of restoration, and a lack of self-moderation in areas of financial responsibility and extravagance. They attributed the moral breakdown to an increased prevalence in ministry being seen as a profession “in which the importance of success and power outweigh the demands of servanthood and integrity.”
At 84 years of age Billy is still receiving a hundred percent salary of $423,364 and is working less than ten percent of the time! How come?
� Billy Graham Director, Chairman Compensation: $423,364 12/2002
� Luis Palau Evangelistic Association Luis Palau President, CEO Compensation: $175,995 12/2001
� Coral Ridge Ministries Dr. D. James Kennedy President N/A
� In Touch Ministries Charles F. Stanley President Compensation: $108,530 09/2002
� Eternal Word Television Network Michael Warsaw President Compensation: $83,772
� Insight for Living Cynthia Swindoll President Compensation: $131,402
� ORAL ROBERTS UNIVERSITY Richard Roberts Chairman, CEO Compensation: $55,000
(Richard’s wife Lindsey also receives compensation, Television and Radio programs reach an estimated 800,000 per week.)
� Jack Van Impe Ministries International Jack Van Impe President Compensation: $144,974 12/2002
� Turning Point for God David P. Jeremiah President Compensation: $100,179 12/2001
� Three Angels Broadcasting Network Danny Shelton President Compensation: $53,022 12/2002
� The Good News Broadcasting Association Woodrow Kroll President Compensation: $92,028 06/2002
� Ligonier Ministries Robert C. Sproul President Compensation: $198,269 12/2002
CEO Pay: The person identified as a charity’s CEO is the individual employed full-time to lead the organization on a day-to-day basis for the accounting period reflected by the charity’s income statement

Is Paul Crouch of TBN Bisexual like Jim Bakker?

The L.A. Times reported tht Paul and Jan Crouch project the image of a happily married couple but lead separate lives and rarely stay under the same roof. Is it possible that Paul Crouch is gay and is going the way of Jim Bakker who was bi-sexual? (see http://www.christiannews.0catch.com/bakker.htm). Paul Crouch has emphatically denied the accusations leveled at him by former disgruntled TBN employee, Enoch Lonnie Ford that he and Crouch had a sexual encounter eight years ago.

Paul, 70, collects a $403,700 salary as TBN’s chairman and president. Jan, 67, is paid $361,000 as vice president and director of programming. Those are the highest salaries paid by any of the 12 major religious nonprofits whose finances are tracked by the Chronicle of Philanthropy.

The Crouches travel the world in a $7.2-million, 19-seat Canadair Turbojet owned by TBN. They drive luxury cars. They have charged expensive dinners and furniture to TBN credit cards.
Thirty ministry-owned homes are at their disposal — including a pair of Newport Beach mansions, a mountain retreat near Lake Arrowhead and a ranch in Texas.

While other religious broadcasters have struggled, TBN has posted surpluses averaging nearly $60 million a year since 1997. Its balance sheet for 2002, the most recent available, lists net assets of $583 million, including $238 million in Treasury bonds and other government securities and $31 million in cash. It has 400 employees across the country

She and Paul project the image of a happily married couple. But off the air, they lead separate lives and rarely stay under the same roof, according to former TBN employees and others who have spent time with the couple.

Whether in Southern California or on the road, they live in a variety of other TBN-owned homes. In all, the network owns 30 residences in California, Texas, Tennessee and Ohio — all paid for in cash, property records show.Kelly Whitmore, a former personal assistant to Jan Crouch, said in interviews with The Times that she used a TBN American Express card to make numerous personal purchases for Jan and Paul, including groceries, clothes, cosmetics, alcohol and a tanning bed.Whitmore said she regularly used ministry money and a network-owned van to stock the bars in Paul’s and Jan’s separate condominiums at Trinity Music City.
Rick Meyers
Orlando Florida

Born Again Baptist Minister charged as abuser
« Thread started on: Today at 11:47am »
Police say there may be at least five other victims, all boys
By David Eck, Enquirer contributor
and Jennifer Edwards, Enquirer staff writer
(reproduced under fair copy right provision of law)

MAINEVILLE - The longtime minister of a Baptist church and former council member in this Warren County village is accused of sexually abusing a 12-year-old church member - and police say there could be more victims.

C. Stephen Harmon, 47, was held Friday night on no bond at the Warren County Jail. He was charged with one count of gross sexual imposition.

Harmon has been minister at Maineville Baptist Church for 15 years. He stopped working for the church this week after the allegation arose, said church secretary Myra Wiseman.

“It’s just a horrible time,” a tearful Wiseman said Friday. “It’s just awful.”

Hamilton Township Police Chief Eugene Duvelius said Friday that Harmon gave authorities a statement admitting molesting the 12-year-old and indicating possible other molestations over a 12-year period. He could face more charges, the chief said.

The case unfolded late Wednesday when the boy’s parents reported the alleged abuse to police, Duvelius said. Harmon was interviewed, and the investigation shows there could be at least five additional victims, authorities said.

“We’re in the process of trying to locate all of the children involved,” Duvelius said. “We just want to make sure those children are OK.”

Hamilton Township police are urging anyone whose children may have been victimized to contact them.

The purported victims are all males between 12 and 15 years old, who were inappropriately touched while at church or church-related events, Duvelius said.

“(Harmon) did indicate some (activity) took place in the Columbus area,” Duvelius said. “From what he indicated, it was all just . . . touching.” Activity may also have occurred in Kentucky, Duvelius said.

On Thursday, police said, they removed six computers, videotape, and several hundred compact and floppy discs. The computer equipment is being analyzed by the Miami Valley Crime Laboratory, while Hamilton Township investigators are viewing the videotapes for illegal material, Duvelius said.

“The church has been very cooperative with us,” the chief said.

On Friday, the church secretary released a statement from the congregation:

“We are deeply saddened and greatly outraged at the events that have come to light regarding the former pastor, Steve Harmon. It is hard for anyone to understand how someone could do these things; especially someone supposed to lead us in our faith.

“Our faith stands strong and we believe that God has a plan, even in these terrible times. We fully support and cooperate with the legal system and expect that justice will be done. Our prayers and support go out to the victims, as they struggle to overcome.”

In an interview with the Enquirer Monday on an unrelated issue regarding the church, Harmon described himself as an “old-fashioned country preacher.”

“We still preach abstinence. We still preach holy living. We still preach what was preached 180 years ago,” he said. “We are a church for anybody. But we are not a church that’s for everybody.”

Harmon served at least two years on Maineville village council about six years ago, officials said.

According to Harmon’s biography on the church’s Web site, he has written more than 30 Bible study books and the 380-page A Pictorial History of the Maineville Crossroads. He started a church in Northern Virginia before going to Maineville in August 1987, and became pastor in January 1990.

Harmon’s wife, Landa Gale, teaches in a Christian school and is the church’s pianist, a Sunday school teacher, and fills in everywhere else she is needed, the biography states. The couple’s grown daughter also sings in the church.

Calls to the Harmon home were not returned Friday night.

Bill Schilling, the pastor of Maineville United Methodist Church across Foster-Maineville Road from Maineville Baptist, said he was reading books by Harmon on Thursday night.

“I was crushed. It’s hard to take,” Schilling said. “The church is supposed to be the one sacred place in society and this world where people can come and be safe and allowed to be innocent from the darkness of the world.”

“You just never would imagine that anybody you know would do something like that,” said Lisa Wilson, who has lived next door to the Harmons for at least 10 years

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/02/loc_loc1amin.html





I posted that money twice just in case you did not see the amounts the first time