Bit of a long one this, I'm afraid...?

Question

Assume for the purposes of this question that the Christian faith is correct. God exists. Those who follow his teachings go to Heaven, the sinners to Hell. Now, we have a historical precedent where individuals can be cast out of Heaven for going against God, the archangel Lucifer.

Human beings are fallible. I doubt anyone here could claim to be perfect (not without committing the sin of Pride, of course ;)). It's conceivable that a human being could, over the course of a mortal lifespan, be faithful enough to be rewarded with Heaven.

However, they're in Heaven for eternity. Over an infinite span of time, pure statistics suggest they would act sufficiently fallible to earn God's displeasure at some point. This is what you get when you start messing with infinity. At this point, they would be cast into Hell. And no-one is paroled from Hell, it's sort of the definition of the place. You're there for good.

Does this mean that over eternity, Heaven would eventually end up empty?

Mr Albright: Goodness, was that the WHOLE bible you copied and pasted?

Answer 1

Revelation 22:3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
The word that is translated curse appears only once in the Bible. The root word that it comes from is defined :
a thing devoted to God without hope of being redeemed, and if an animal, to be slain; therefore a person or thing doomed to destruction
so there is to be no more people without hope of redemption. Remember all those who are going to heaven have sinned. The blood of the Lamb covers that sin and washes them white as snow. The other thing is that God will create a new heaven and a new earth. One without Satan or temptation. Without temptation why would we sin. God is going to create a perfect world without the curse of the possibility of sin. So no heaven will not end up empty as all those written in the book of like will remain perfect and covered by the blood of the Lamb.

Answer 2

God created us perfect in the beginning Satan tempted Eve with the first lie and now we live in a fallen world. We are given choices here on earth and our purpose is to become more Christ like we will not fulfill that purpose until we are made complete in heaven. where we will always be perfect and live with God forever. For now we are covered by the blood of Christ so we are considered sinless we can only break are bond with God when we sin we have to ask for forgiveness to restore our walk with him. Hope this helps

Answer 3

Back in the day, I actually posed a similar question to a deacon. The answer was (paraphrased) "in Heaven, we will be perfected--so we will no longer have the desire to sin." This of course begged the question as to why we were not perfect already--or why Lucifer et.al. were created imperfectly, and so on. The conversation did not end satisfactorily for either of us, I think.

Answer 4

Brother Wolf,

Understand that we as sinners, of whom I am chief, must live in repentance. One might consider the cross, not only was Jesus sentenced but also there were two others hanging with him; one was unrepentant and went unto outerdarkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, the other man whom was repentant received the PROMISE and that day was in paradise.

Answer 5

1st your assumption you understand the infinate negates your question'...2nd once a person is truly born-again=saved=redeemed etc..they become similar to JesusChrist*which enables them to please GOD*and nothing that pleases GOD*is cast out of heaven,...the one that is now nor the one to come after the final great white throne judgement of the book of revelation...when the new heavens and earth are newly created*

Answer 6

We will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Answer 7

we'll burn that bridge when we come to it

Answer 8

You thoughts seems wrong and derailed. You are misguiding yourself. Are you giving the example of Lucifer to justify that if God throws out Lucifer, then there is no hope for any man to stay in heaven for ever. These thoughts sound like you want to convince people that there is no need to believe in God and doing any good in this life for heaven in next life.

No, no. If this is what you want, you may fool few but not all.

If Lucifer is same in Bible who is reffferd in Quran as Iblees (Satan) then you don't know his story straight. Satan was not Angel but Jinn created from fire. There are in this world as many Jinns as many humans. We can't see them. Like humans they are good as well as bad. Lots of them like us follow Prophets of God and worship God too.

Like Angels Satan was also the most obedient servant of God. When God created Adam and commanded Angels and Jinns to prostrate Adam, all prostrated Adam as God commanded except Satan. The thought of his superiority of being created from fire as compared to Adam created from dust came in his way. He rebelled against God and refused to obey God. That is when God threw him out of Heaven.

It seems to be that God has created this Satan as a competition to God's obedient humans in His process of testing the humans (Good against Evil). How God could test humans if He never created Evil. Satan is merely a figure of Evil. Satan represents evil leading to hell verses Prophets and Divine Revelations represent and teach good that lead to Heaven.

God gave Free will to Adam but also taught him every good and bad and warned him not to eat from one tree to arouse his curiosity. Satan comes and fools him and encourages him to eat from the forbidden tree by saying God doesn't want to have you eternal life. Adam and Eve slip and eat it. Before Adam and Eve ate it, they were living naked but weren't aware of their sexuality. Soonafter they ate the forbidden thing, their sexuality triggered and they were hiding their private parts with leaves. God had already taught every thing Adam and Eve needed to live their life on earth.

It seems to me that it was time God decided to settle Adam and Eve and start living like a family with making children and find themselves their food to eat. So as God planned, 'God gave Adam and Eve an experience of a little disobey of God which is a sin through Satan playing his part and Adam and Eve made a mistake.

God says clearly in Qurn that Adam and Eve repented for their mistake and God forgave them. They came on earth with clean slate and no sin on their record. It is Christian Dogma created by Paul that humans are born sinners because of the sin of Adam and Eve and all need to accept Jesus or else they will remain sinners and will burn in hell. It is merely a clever to make every human guilty and feel that they don't have a way out except to believe in the sacrifice of Jesus for their sins. Well God spoke against this Dogma in Quran and calls it all fake and says following in Quran:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)


"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)


"Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67)

Islam is clear on it. Humans are born free from any sin. Sin of Parents is no responsibility of an child.

A child that is born from a rape or from a forbidden sex between two fornicators is also free from any sin on his record. His sins has to be the ones He does in his life when he grows up. With the example of forgiveness of ADAM and EVE's disobediency because Satan misguided them, God has given all of us a way for repenting to God and getting forgiveness. God is most Merciful, most forgiving and does forgive if you commit sin over and over and come back for forgiveness. Off course you may be repeating the same sin over and over and make God tired of you. So God also says you repent, I forgive you, now promise that you won't do it again and keep the promise. Off course human is weak and will do it again. But there will be a time when with age and experience he does stops sinning. He repents and cries with tears in front of God and God again forgives him.

So to the final Messenger of God Mohammad SAW, He commands to have your followers perform five prayers in a day. All minor sins they will commit between two prayers, will be forgiven due to these dail prayers. Now Muslim has a window for getting all his minor sins forgiven every day. Except of course the major sins like murder, robing and raping. For those big crimes he will have to pay the price by receiving punishment in hell for some time. He can be forgiven and enter in Heaven because of all other good deeds he does in his life on earth. They don't go waste. He does get reward of Heaven for the good he does. The ultimate goal of humans must be that they do more good and keep getting their bad deeds cleaned by reprenting to God and getting forgiveness. But they have to believe the real God an repent to Him and not to any fake god. That is the key most people don't realize and keep wasting all their life worshipping some one who has no power of forgiveness.

If man becomes arrogant and doesn't bend to God for forgiveness that window of forgiveness is closed the minute he dies. The punishment in hell fire is extremely severe and painfull. In Prophet Mohammad's time many Muslim men and women came forward and got their major sin forgiven by accepting the punishment of death for fornication in this life to get their souls purified to deserve heaven without getting punishment in hell fire.

Brother you need to learn about Islam. Here are few sites for you to learn if you are interested:

http://www.islam101.com
http://www.islambasics.com/
http://www.islamreligion.com/

I am sure If you get interested you will find more sites on internet to learn more yourself. If not and you reject this guidance from me, it is your loss not mine. I am here just to show the way that leads to heaven and may save you from hell.

May God guide all of us to the right path that leads to Heaven. Ameen

Answer 9

The believers in Jesus Christ will be changed in the resurrection and be given a sinless state of being in a new body, through which they will live through God's Spirit alone forever. In this state they will no longer have the awareness of good and evil, which is the state that enables us to live through Satan and his fellow fallen angel's spirits.
1Cor. 15:50   Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. 55 “O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
A better explanation is found in the gospel of salvation explanation below.
The Gospel of Salvation Through Jesus the Christ Explained

According to John 1:4 when God created the first man and woman they lived in a sinless state of being, which was characterized by living in the “Life” in God. John 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
From Mat 19:17, which says, “if you wish to enter into “life” keep the commandments of God” we can realize that while the man and the woman lived in the “life” in God they kept His commandments and therefore were sinless. Matt. 19:17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
When Isaiah 11:3 foretold that He (Jesus) would delight in the fear of the Lord he was explaining that Jesus would delight in living in the “Life” in the Father rather than making judgments by what he saw or heard going on around Him. Is. 11:3 And He will delight in the fear of the LORD, And He will not judge by what His eyes see, Nor make a decision by what His ears hear; It was because Jesus lived in the “life” in the Father that He never sinned. Jesus demonstrated that He was living in the “Life” in the Father when, as recorded in Luke 2:49, He asked Mary and Joseph, who thought He should have been with them, why they did not know that He was supposed to be in His Father’s house. Luke 2:49 And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?”
As Adam, the first man, recorded in Gen 2:15 God told him, that if he ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would die instantly from living in a sinless state in the “Life” in God, which is distinguished by not having the awareness of good and evil, in which his eyes are described as being closed, and begin living in a sinful state, which is distinguished by having the awareness of good and evil, in which His eyes are described as being open and as a result he would die a second death at the end of this age.
Gen. 2:15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. 16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
The second death is an eternal state of having the awareness of good and evil, with the added torment of having missed the salvation through Jesus the Christ and decrees against you, which will result in continuous weeping, mourning, and gnashing of teeth in anger in a place located outside the kingdom of God, which is descriptively called the lake of fire where Satan and his fallen angels will be.
Rev. 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Col. 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Luke 13:28 “In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.
The gravity of dying the second death is visible in Jesus the Christ, Who, even though He foreknew He would raise up from the second death, when He prayed about having to die the second death for us, just before He was arrested, He almost reached the point of physical death, during which His sweat became like droplets of blood and angels came and strengthen Him so He could continue on. If Jesus reacted in this way to dying the second death for us even though He foreknew He would rise up from it, imagine what it would be for like for you or I to die the second death from which we could never rise up from, because we have sinned.
Matt. 26:38 Then He *said to them, “My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me.”
Luke 22: 42 saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” 43 Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. 44 And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.
When the first man and woman ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil they instantly died from living in a sinless state of being, in which their eyes were closed, which was characterized by their not having the awareness of good of evil, which caused them to live in the “Life” in God, to a sinful state of being, in which their eyes were open, which is characterized by their having the awareness of good and evil, which caused them to live outside of the “Life” in God and begin sinning. This was portrayed when they suddenly became aware that they were naked, and were afraid, which caused them cover themselves up and hide from God.
Gen 3:6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.
Gen 3:10 He said, “I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.”
Rom. 8:6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
As a result of Adam and Eve sinning, sin entered into the world, through which all mankind died.
Rom. 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
According to Rom 5:14, when each of us first sinned, even though we did not sin in the same way that the first man and woman did, each of us died from living in a sinless state, in which our eyes were closed and we did not have the awareness of good and evil, through which we lived in the “Life” in God, to our present sinful state, in which our eyes are open and we have the awareness of good and evil, which has caused us to live outside of the “Life” in God in darkness and sin. As a result of having died this kind of death all of us became destined to die a second death at the end of the age.
Rom. 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
According to 1Cor 15:56 it is the state of the awareness of good and evil that has provided us with the psychological means to commit all kinds of sin and according to John 1:5 has resulted in our not having the perpetual awareness of God.
1Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
John 1:5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Sin is any behavior that is contrary to the behavior, which God created us behave like. 1Cor 6:9-10 lists some of these sins and we can know that we have sinned in our past by the fact that we have the awareness of good and evil.
1Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
According to Rom 3:23 everyone has sinned.
Rom. 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
In order for each to be saved from dying the second death and return to a state of living in the “Life” in God, in which our eyes will be closed and we will perpetually keep His commandments, we have to have this state of death removed from us, which only God can do and He completed in Himself in Jesus the Christ when He died and raised up from our second death for us while He hung on the cross between the sixth hour and the ninth hour.
Rom. 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
In Mat 27:50-54 we can see that Jesus died and arose from our second death for us during His crucifixion, between the sixth hour and the ninth hour, while He was alive on the cross, since verses 53-54 explains that the Centurions saw the earth quake and the saints come out of the tombs while they were still keeping guard over Jesus and verse 53 explains that Jesus had already resurrected from our second death before they saw all of these things take place.
(Mat 27:50-54) And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. {51} And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth shook; and the rocks were split, {52} and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; {53} and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. {54} Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"
Jesus signified that He was dying our “second death” for us during His crucifixion between the sixth hour and the ninth hour when He asked His Father, ”Why have You forsaken Me?”
Matt. 27:45 Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour. 46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?” that is, “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
As is recorded in Rom 6:3,5 when we believe in Jesus the Christ, it is by our belief that we are baptized into His death and His resurrection and as a result, as is recorded in 1Cor 15:51-54, when Jesus returns and resurrects us He will remove this state of the awareness of good and evil or death from us, which as is recorded in Rev 20:6, will keep the second death from having power over us when it takes place at the end of the age.
Rom. 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
1Cor 15:51-54 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
At the moment you believe in Jesus the Christ, He will baptize you with His Holy Spirit, at which time His Spirit will bear witness with your spirit that you have believed fully and belong to Him.
Eph. 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise
Rom. 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
According to Rom 8:37-39 once we believe in Jesus nothing can separate us from the salvation we have in Him.
Rom 8:37-39 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
If you have any questions email them to me.

Bro. James D Albright