Wise, all-knowing God?

Question

I've seen many Christians answering questions about God's methods by saying that we are incapable of understanding why God does something or allows something. I'm curious as to how they know that God is so wise and all-knowing. Presumably they only have his word for it as every time it appears that he has made a mistake, they say, "It's not a mistake, we simply aren't as wise as God so we can't understand". Almost, but not quite, circular logic. How can you determine his wisdom and knowledge if you can never question him or his actions? How can you be sure of his infallibility if you simply take his word for it and refuse to question his actions. If I'd made such a mess of things I'd claim to be too wise for anybody to understand also.

I'm not looking to offend anyone, I simply have a question I hope someone can answer for me. Thanks.

Wally - Very nice sermon, but it doesn't address what I asked. You gave me a speech about the bible, I never once mentioned or questioned the validity of the bible.

spibbles - LOL. Thank you. :)

DF - Uhhm, I'm sorry but astronomy DOESN'T teach that the age of the universe is essentially unknown.
"the universe. what is in it? where did it come from? where does it go? no human knows. why? because it is infinite." It being infinite is not the reason for lack of knowledge. It is simply one of the qualities of the universe, not some cloud obscuring all knowledge of it.

"if you assume that there is spiritual energy, then that too will have an infinite existence." Ahh, that's the sticking point isn't it. The assumption that there actually is a spiritual energy. And it's actually physics that teaches conservation of energy, not chemistry.

So you actually simply gave me a longer-winded version of "It's not a mistake, we simply aren't as wise as God so we can't understand". You could have just copied and pasted it from my question.

Answer 1

Circular logic - have you ever thought about how everything goes in circles? is there anything that is not part of a cycle? Doesn't it seem like everything is just a small part of a great, inter-connected whole?

Does a tree think or question? How then does it know to grow and reproduce, without making a conscious decision? It's as if there's some sort of instinct running through it and through all of nature, telling it the right thing to do for survival and evolution of the whole. Perhaps God is not some being in the sky pointing a giant finger at mankind, but maybe what they call God (or gia - can't spell it - or Allah, or Jehovah, etc) is our True Instinct that tells us what to do for the survival and evolution and continuation of the Whole, something that runs through everything?

At any one time a tree only has one choice - it can follow its instincts, nothing else. It can't just decide to uproot itself and move to another area of the forest. It can't decide it doesn't feel like dropping its leaves in autumn. It can only do the right thing for the survival of the Whole. But we humans have a huge amount of choice. perhaps the volume of choice we have makes it easy for us to get lost among the choices, and then it is hard to work out what it is that our instincts tell us to do, what is our real instinctive choice. So our instincts ("God", "Jehovah", whatever you want to call it/them/him/her) are not wrong - it's just we might not always know what they are, so it is easy for us to do the 'wrong' thing?

I am not a christian, if anything I must be an agnostic unitarian! :) (I just don't know whats true, but I think that every persons belief could just be a different route towards the same thing, and like climbing a mountain, you don't have to all follow the same path to get to the top of it)

I have a few ideas though about some things that might be right or might be wrong.

This is not really answering your quesiton either but I'll carry on anyway and hope you don't mind :)

Imagine you are a body that stretches to the far corners of the universe and to any other dimension that may or may not exist and as far as anything that is be it infinite or not infinite. You have just become one whole big blob of everything, you are everywhere and everything all at once, nothing within you is separate, you are One. What do you see, when you look out? Well?


You wouldn't see anything, would you? You wouldn't know anything about yourself. You can only give something a name because it is seperate from everything else. This is only a computer because it isn't a window or a cupboard of a...I dunno...a big white bunny rabbit :). A thing is only made a thing by comparison to something else, by differences - if there is nothing but One, there can be no comparisons or differences. You would experience Nothing.

The only thing you could experience would be yourself, and you could only do that by splitting yourself up and observing yourself as Parts. Then each little part of you would able to experience a huge mass of the whole.

So perhaps (?) I am a cell of a huge universal body/soul. From the perspective of the whole I am just a part of it, just as a cell is a part of my human body. But as an individual, I experience myself as seperate from everything else - unaware that really it is all Me?

As I said, just ideas, I don't really know anything :)

take care and have fun :)

Me

Answer 2

I read the bible and from there I can understand and learn aobut God and for the bible as being correct I can test it with what has happened and what is also told will happen.

In Leviticus 17:22, the Bible states that "For the life of the flesh is in the blood:" This was written thousands of years before that became medical truth. In fact, our first President died at Mount Vernon with a Bible alongside his bed. He had taken a horseback ride around the fields in a rain and caught a chill. His condition worsened, and a man was summoned who knew how to let blood, a common practice of the day to get rid of fever or disease. The report reads that the bloodletting continued until the blood ran very slowly from the vein. He was literally bled to death because the truth of the Bible was not accepted. While the Bible is not a science book, it is scientifically correct.

The Bible is not a textbook of history, but it is historically correct. For many years, critics of the Bible scoffed at its claim that Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldees. There was no "scientific proof that such a place existed. However, later excavations gave the proof that some were looking for. Ur of the Chaldees is mentioned in the Bible as the birthplace of Abraham, although there is no real evidence to support this statement. On a surer footing, it was the capital of the ancient civilisation of Sumeria, and was first excavated in 1922-34 by Sir Leonard Woolley. In fact, a search on the web recently turned up over 74,000 sites that mentioned Ur of the Chaldees. Again, the Bible has outlived its historical critics.

The Bible, alone, stands the test of time. A man once came to the blacksmith and watched him hammer red hot metal on the anvil. When the blacksmith put the metal back in the fire, and reheated it, the man asked him how many anvils he had gone through in his career. He said, "This is the one I started with, my friend." I have had many hammers and a lot of metal has been formed on this anvil, but it is the same anvil. You see, it is the anvil that stands when all hammers and metal is gone." The Bible is that anvil for the Christian. God has said, "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Psalm 119:89 Even if someone had the hammer that would break the Bible (and they do not), there is no way it could be used on the Word, because it is settled forever in Heaven.

Answer 3

prepare to be offended...

Christians are probably some of the craziest religious people in the history of the human race. your critique is quite on point.

to answer your question is another story. in my studies of spiritual energies as a human, i have come to believe that Christianity's concept of God is way out of line with the realities of the universe as it exists. some of what you state explains such grossly inadequate perceptions of God. for one, god as a concept does not have a gender. i don't even use the word myself. in my studies, i have come to believe that the universe and god are one and the same. this belief stems from the assumption that god is infinite.

there are only a few things in existence that the human mind seems to perceive and recognize as being infinite. you have time. real time, not the time that we use to make watches and calendars, but the time that frames the existence of the universe. the calendars and timepieces we use are not accurate. this is why everything must be adjusted periodically by using daylight savings time, leap years, and other such devices of human creation. these things compensate for the lack of harmony that humans have with actual time.

study of astronomy teaches that the universe's age is essentially unknown. it has no beginning and no end and it is forever expanding into itself. this brings me to one of the other infinite concepts: the universe. what is in it? where did it come from? where does it go? no human knows. why? because it is infinite.

chemistry teaches that energy cannot be destroyed. energy changes states of being, but it cannot be outright destroyed. again, an infinite concept. forms of energy pass from one state to the next infinitely. if you assume that there is spiritual energy, then that too will have an infinite existence.

if you consider that humans are clearly finite, we do not exist in physical form infinitely, then it isn't too much of a stretch to suggest that a finite being cannot truly understand the infinite. based on the above considerations of what things appear to be infinite to the finite human mind, how are all of the infinite things separate? it is my suggestion that they are not at all separate. essentially, the universe, god, time, and energy are all one and the same. we have difficulty understanding this because of our finite ability to see the infinite. science and religion attempt to explain the finite existence of humans in a reality that is actually infinite and beyond our complete understanding.

i believe that once we are no longer finite beings, that only then can we achieve true understanding. that would be once we assume the being of our spiritual energy, we can once again communicate openly with the infinite reality that is the universe...

Answer 4

The Christians you're describing go by another name....automotons, lol.
People...ALL people need to stop blaming God for all the messes on Earth. If he DID in fact create the Earth, then it, too, is a living, breathing entity...and therefore must also have hiccups along the way and eventually die, as well. As far as the OTHER messes (non-natural disasters).....those are noone's fault but mankind's.

Answer 5

Wisdom is not based on logic.
God wanted to draw people to Him by faith. Those who are not willing to receive Him by faith will search for logical resolution to their questions.
God is not answerable to man.
He knows His purpose for what He has created, and He knows His creation will serve it's purpose. He set things in order as He desired.
We do not have to understand everything now. Trust is something that is earned. Loyalty is something that is gained.
As I commit myself as a faithful believer He grows my understanding through experience and develops my trust and loyalty.
He gives revelation and understanding to those who follow Him by faith.
No offense taken.

Answer 6

"If I'd made such a mess of things I'd claim to be too wise for anybody to understand also."

That is, in all honesty, the smartest thing I've heard in a month. Kudos.

Answer 7

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; fools despise knowledge and instruction.

Answer 8

Sorry, it's not for you to understand.

These things have been hidden from those who are perishing.

When you finally realize you have nothing to offer and turn to God accepting your guilt for the multitude of your crimes against God, He will here you, you will know that he knows you and you will have your answers.

I have been touched by the living God, he guides me in his scriptures and reveals his nature to me a little at a time.

Answer 9

Circular logic indeed.

Answer 10

ur sayin it's a mistake ur eyes r on ur head instead of ur toes?!