Does the presence of the U.S. military in Iraq breed American enemies?

Question

This is a follow-up to the question below:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AhVbNif_1fwQcvTPorNOfQHsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20071114091752AAKaUar

My greatest objection to the idea that "we fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" is that occupying Iraq breeds enemies - many of whom don't even reside in Iraq. For groups not living in Iraq, the fact that we have soldiers in Iraq will only appease them if they choose to target those soldiers rather than civilians in the U.S. If they choose to ignore the soldiers and commit acts of violence here, our soldiers in Iraq will be no deterrent.

I admit that my opinion on the matter is rather made up. I'm more hopeful to influence opinions of people who don't agree with me than to change my own opinion. However, I welcome you to challenge my view.

When answering, say what you would do if a foreign military occupied the U.S. Don't bother to answer if you're not willing to opine on this. I think it's key.

one_for_the_doctor:

No. The U.S. military was not occupying Iraq prior to 9/11, but it was dropping bombs on them and enforcing sanctions. These sanctions are purported to have led to the death of a half million Iraqi children. Madeleine Albreight (in)famously said that those deaths were "worth it".

[Maybe a little insight into why we were attacked on 9/11?]

feecheez:

Com on! We were just "liberating" them!

D C Timberstone:

You're talking about the governments, right? Governments are not the people. It is clear from the blossoming of al Qaeda in Iraq that the occupation has had a much different effect on the general population vis-a-vis al Qaeda.

Troy G:

Thanks for your view as a vet. I understand that not all vets agree with you. I have to admit though that I am more persuaded by accounts such as your's when taken together with the other things that I think I know about history there.

uhgrant100:

You're right. They didn't start hating the U.S. when our military invaded. U.S. foreign policy has been very active in Middle Eastern countries for decades. They know about our support for the coup of the Shah in the 50's. They know that we continue to support dictators who kow tow to U.S. interests (think Pakistan today).

Without our military presence there, surely some people would still hate the U.S. But I believe that the occupation is making matters worse.

RTO Trainer:

"Terrorists are not bread or created. They are revealed."

Wha'? Okay, we're dropping bombs on populated areas right now. Never mind that these are "smart" bombs. They still make quite big explosions. It is publicly reported that many civilians have been killed in these bombings.

So, let's say that your entire family dies as a result of a foreign invader's bombs. That you are enraged and want revenge has only "revealed" the hate that you always had in your heart???

Iraqis, muslims, all these people, despite their cultural differences are still human. That they are typically in grinding poverty makes them tend to be a little desperate, it is true. Otherwise, they act pretty much like other humans.

RacerX:

Perhaps the best dissenting answer. I've heard the flash point statistic before but never looked into it. It sounds very subjective. I'd like to know a couple of things:

1. In how many situations is the U.S. or other foreign entity involved?

2. In how many areas are the people in extreme poverty? [There are other factors that lead people to violence, but typically, affluent people see no need for it.]

If you happen to check back here, I'd appreciate a source on the flash point statistic.

On the Barbary pirate actions, you can't generalize the actions of millions through the actions of a few. Whatever their motives, they (and current day terrorists) are criminals. They don't imply that entire populations think that way. I continue to believe that most people are happier to mind their own business, rear their children and live their own lives.

Joe T:

Your answer reminds me of the idea of "fourth generation" war:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lind/lind26.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lind/lind3b.html

Brendon:

Another decent dissenting answer. Yes, the U.S. occupation has probably made a few friends. There are certainly those who support the U.S. effort.

The question is whether our military are seen as "liberators". I look at the carnage in the country and think 'hell no'!

Thanks for the input on history. If I may add to your history, you forget the U.S. role in supporting Saddam, arming him and looking the other way when he committed his atrocities against his people. He was OUR dictator. Regarding the oil-for-food program, I don't doubt that he was guilty there and that his actions combined with ours to bring suffering to his people. Regarding the sanctions prior to the invasion, how did he really not comply? It appears that he didn't have any weapons. Furthermore, I have heard that he offered to go into exile to avoid war. We refused.

The people in the region know all this. The U.S. has little credibility with them.

Lettie D:

I remember how you have been personally affected by this war. Thank you for adding your opinion.

Answer 1

And u-r-absolutely right in u r-assumption being in the Middle East,when I served in the military was not as bad back in the 80's until Lebanon,happened than things went down hill from there n the fact that we really r not welcome in the military and we have those two idiots in the White House,n a secretary of state that is not a crowd favorite in the Middle East,either makes for a very dangerous mix.
Listen I am a veteran and my son is a Marine,and I agree with u on all fronts about this because my fellow veterans are targets and will continue to be so until we are the heel out of there and with civilians contractors like those jackasses like (Blackwater),killing there civilians that is not making anything any better now is it.
If a foreign power occupies the U.S.which will never happen and being ex-military what do u think I would do I would fight and shoot forces that do not belong on this soil,I wore the uniform actually two (Army & Navy) n I will be damn if I am going to sit back and let some foreign power think they r going to come here and take over this country and threaten not just this country but my three young grand children ages (1,4,&5) is that good n direct for u like the flag says (Military Flag (Don't Tread On Me) n I mean that.

Answer 2

Because it is necessary and only a fool would support sudden and precipitous withdrawl based on political rather than military reasons. Also, a military presence in Iraq has the same value to INTERNATIONAL security as our having a military presence in Germany, Japan, Italy, Saudi Arabia, South Korea and many other places around the world. Why is it that having a military presence in Iraq is such a problem for folks like you? What is it about Iraq that is a problem when our presence in many other places around the world is not?

Answer 3

I don't buy the idea that we are breeding enemies in Iraq. there are a lot of Iraqis fighting alongside us there. Our presence there has drawn in a lot of foreign fighters from the entire Muslim world which has resulted in a lot of dead terrorists. The Iraqi people are sick of terrorists that attack civilians, this breeds more allies who want to fight them, not more terrorists. To answer the second part of your question I would kill as many members of a foreign military as possible if we were invaded. There are many things that differ between us and the people of Iraq though. We are a democratic society, they were living in an autocratic one in which their dictator was responsible for hundreds of thousands of murders. Our military is by far the strongest in the world so I don't think anyone is going to be able to invade us within the near future. Also our population is full of citizens who are armed and know how to shoot. It would take a well trained and equipped army of tens of millions of troops to even have a shot at occupying us in a conventional war. Since there is no country on Earth that could muster this it's not even a remote worry for us.

Answer 4

Joe,

Your greatest objection is found on a false sense of history. Have you ever heard of the Barbary Coast Pirates? Read some history. When this country was first legitimate (in it's infancy) the Muslims were the first to attack the UNITED STATES as a country. When asked why the muslims attacked our ships, their response was that it was because we are "infidels" and thus they were justified to attack, steel and kill people of our country.

This was well before "Isreal" was re-established back in the Middle East. This was well before the US had ANY influence/presence in the Middle East. It's merely a clash of cultures.

Last information I had, there were roughly 128 Flash Points in the world. A Flash Point defined as two armed parties in conflict. Of the 128 conflicts, the Nation of Islam (muslims) are involved in 124 of them.

See a pattern? Is this Random? Do some real homework and make your own conclusion.

As for someone Occupying my country...I used to think this would be aproblem, but God before country, so no worries. The rest is all vanity...

Best regards.

Answer 5

Absolutely. It's as plain as the nose on your face. Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq until we invaded them. And what are we doing there to begin with? No Iraqi had anything to do with 9/11. Not to mention that we have lost the respect we once had from the rest of the World. Some wars are legitimate as Afghanistan was, but those based on lies are disgraceful and do nothing to attain our position in this World. Under other circumstances enemies might not be bred, but under these particular circumstances, they are. If and I do mean if, a foreign military occupied the US then we would have to fight as we did in the Revolutionary War. However, more diplomatic people are required in our leadership in order to prevent that. If you bully people, sometimes it comes back to haunt you. Troy G up there is telling you exactly how it is.

Answer 6

I do not believe that the British invaded us in 1812 because we had troops in Iraq. Every nation will always have enemies.

Speaking of Foreign Military occupying the US, there is no need to have foreign forces here. Everywhere we have troops stationed is because of a war (troops stationed in Britain because of NATO agreements - troops stationed in Korea because of UN agreements) or the nation has invited us there for security reasons. The last time a foreign nation sent troops to US territory, we attacked and defeated them.

Answer 7

Terrorists are not bread or created. They are revealed.

The presumption you make is that someone who becomes a terrorist while the US is in Iraq, would not have done so otherwise. I don't buy it.

If a foreign military invased the US, removed a brutal dictator, helped establish electionds for a new self-determined government, began rebuilding what had been destroyed, and adding new infrastructure, like schools, brigdes, and hospitals, unless I could be persuaded that it was all a ruse; that they were never going to leave or it was a trick of some kind, or worse, that they would start to make things better and then abandon us (like we've done to Iraq before in 1991) I wouldn't fight them. I'd pitch in and help.

Answer 8

These people hated us before we were in Iraq.

The presense of America creates American enemies.

Before Iraq it was Afganistan, before Afganistan it was Saudi Arabia, Desert Storm was an issue for a while, Lebanon was an issue for a while, Iran was an issue before that.

This has always been the case. The thing that has brought this all to light is that the USSR is gone. This hate and these enemies have always been there, it was ignored because the entire world was focused on WWIII and the USSR and USA, but once the USSR was gone, all focus was on the USA and now these enemies that were hiding in the shadows of the Cold War are out in the light. This fight has been brewing for a long time, but it was not recognized until 9-11, despite attacks since the 1980s.

The only difference is that Iraq and Afganistan now give these enemies a place to fight us vs attacking targets in small groups. Its easy for these enemeis to go to Iraq and fight us then to strike at us in the USA, it takes small dedicated groups to do that. Iraq gives the mass un-organized group a place to fight now.

If we were not in Iraq, those enemies would still be there. Most would not have the means to strike at us, but they would still be there. If for no other reason because we are seen by the un-educated masses in this area as the military puppet of Isreal.

They don't just suddenly hate us because we are in Iraq, the hate was there before.

For me, it would depend on why the forign military invaded. If it was restore the US to what we are now (because for some reason we lost our democracy) I would support it. If it was to start a dictatorship in our country, I would fight it. But unlike most of the people who are attacking us, we see both sides (belief in one side or the other is something else, but we see both). The people who hate us see only one side period.

Answer 9

We obviously had many enemies anyway long before we went into Iraq; most of the people fighting against us there now were never our friends in the first place. Being in Iraq breeds friends, too... many Iraqis have sacrificed to help us and to support their government and their future.

They HAVE tried to commit acts of violence here. They haven't had much success on U.S. soil since 9-11, but believe me, they've tried--the reason they haven't succeeded is because of all the security measure implemented in the last six years. They've also tried in other places around the world, too, and with greater success--do London and Madrid ring a bell? There have also been many other well-publicized failed attempts, such as in Germany last year, in Koblenz. This isn't just an Iraq thing or U.S. thing, and hasn't been for years.

You're not the first to posit the "what if" question of a foreign military occupying our country, but you have to realize that it's just not that simple. Look at Iraq's history over the last 28 years. Saddam got to power by assassinating his predecessor, under whom he'd served as second-in-command. Not long after getting into power, he starts a bloody 8-year war with his neighbor. In the early 90's he invades Kuwait, only to be kicked out by us, with a small amount of international help and assistance from the Saudis (by letting us use their territory). Bear in mind that the Saudis, as Sunni Arabs, had far more in common with Saddam and his government than Iran, which are Persian Shi'a. Then, for the rest of that decade and into the new millenium, he ignores UN resolution after UN resolution, and launders money from the Oil-for-Food program with outside help from countries who are supposedly resolved to getting him to comply with those UN resolutions. The buildup to the 2003 invasion wasn't sudden; he had months to comply with the demands that made the premise for an invasion. He refused to comply, just as he had been doing for over ten years already. This wasn't just some random thing Bush thought he'd do for fun. It's not as if Saddam hadn't had ample opportunity to comply with international law; and in all the years of his reign, he slaughtered more of his own countrymen than any other Iraqi leader, or outside influence in this century. Now... bearing that in mind... do you really think any other country has any premise anywhere NEAR that to legitimize an invasion? Have we had sanctions against us by the UN? Have we be ignoring dozens of UN resolutions? Has Bush been gassing and slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Americans for religious and ethnic reasons? Only the most insane and rabid Bush-hater would be thick enough to actually think so. You can't put forth a "what-if" like that and take the circumstances out of context.

Answer 10

There are other items that breed hatred besides iraq.

Like the SUV's that americans drive. I've heard people in the UK make comments that "americans are sucking the world dry of petrol".

I was watching the north korean news on a couple ocassions and they always have a segment where they show these rather large homes in america.

I guess I would have to join the military if a foreign military occupied the usa and fight back. This is where my home is and it isn't going to be turned into a mosque.

hehehehe.