Many of the events in the Christmas story are not subject to checking in history, but?

Question

it would seem that there should be some record of the Roman census that sent Joseph and Mary to Jerusalem. There can't have been that many as it dislocated people. We know it must bave been about 4-5 BC because of when Herod died. So is there any record of the census's held at that time at east end of the Mediterrainian?

Answer 1

The Census, the first and principal duty of the censors, was always held in the Campus Martius, and from the year 435 BC onwards, in a special building called Villa Publica, which was erected for that purpose by the second pair of censors, Gaius Furius Pacilus and Marcus Geganius Macerinus (Livy iv.22; Varro de Re Rustica iii.2).

Census beyond Rome
A census was sometimes taken in the provinces, even under the republic (Cicero Verr. ii.53, 56); but there seems to have been no general census taken in the provinces till the time of Augustus. This emperor caused an accurate account to be taken of all persons in the Roman dominion, together with the amount of their property (Ev. Lucae, ii.1, 2; Joseph. Ant. Jud. xvii.13 §5, xviii.1 §1, 2 §1); and a similar census was taken from time to time by succeeding emperors, at first every ten, and subsequently every fifteen years (Savigny, Römische Steuerverfassung, in Zeitschrift, vol. vi pp375‑383). The emperor sent into the provinces special officers called Censitores to take the census (Dig. 50 tit.15 s4 § 1; Cassiod. Var. ix.11; Orelli, Inscr. No. 3652); but the duty was sometimes discharged by the Imperial legati (Tac. Ann. i.31, ii.6). The Censitores were assisted by subordinate officers, called Censuales, who made out the lists, &c. (Capitol. Gordian. 12; Symmach. Ep. x.43; Cod. Theod. 8 tit.2). In Rome, the census was still taken under the empire, but the old ceremonies connected with it were no longer performed, and the ceremony of the lustration was not performed after the time of Vespasian. The two great jurists, Paulus and Ulpian, each wrote works on the census in the imperial period; and several extracts from these works are given in a chapter in the Digest (50 15).


List of censors
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...
28 BC - Caesar Augustus and Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa
22 BC - Aemilius Lepidus Paullus and Lucius Munatius Plancus
...
8 BC - Caesar Augustus (sole censor)
...
14 AD - Caesar Augustus and Tiberius Julius Caesar
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_censors"

Answer 2

In the book on pages 134-127 by Lee Strobel "The Case for Christ" he questioned Dr. Jeffrey McDonald and later other experts about this issue. But even he admits the explanation a bit odd. Yet he says the experts concluded that the text citing Quirinius (Cyrenius in KJV) could have read "This census took place before Quirinius was governing Syria.". That is Luke 2:2.

Below is a link that verifies the above book's brief discussion.

The Wikipedia is a secular work and yes they do state the facts they also allow skeptics to comment so you get a washed down version of the truth. I don't necessarily believe everything I read in and encyclopedia.

Answer 3

Gorgon, what I "feel" is rather subjective - I am fully aware of that you understand this within the context of your question. The answer provided by Andy K touches upon the objectivity requirement - for both effective teaching and student comprehension of the material. Whether that is considered to be negative by some and positive by others largely depends upon the side of the aisle one sits in reflection of the history lesson that was learned by the student and taught by the teacher. I for one would like to think that this lesson could be taught and understood in an objective manner to where the lesson of the historical significance could lend itself to a dedication of never repeating similar events again (I am in agreeance with Darth above as well). From a pragmatic standpoint I doubt this lesson will ever be taught along the lines of the American Revolution, Civil War, WW I & II, Korea, Viet Nam, or the Civil Rights movement. There are many details left out of every topic of significance. To your more important question of "should", my answer is yes it "should" be taught. Negative historical events have a place for the lesson plans taught in schools. The only question I have is whether teachers will have the presence of mind to be objective within that same lesson plan. Have a good day...star is coming.... Gerry

Answer 4

Have you read Josephus? His is the best known contemporaneous source; however, the existence of the Census does not itself prove the Christmas story.

Another way of considering the veracity of the Christmas story is to look at the story's origins. Most of the key elements, virgin birth, annunciation, resurrection, sspecific stories of Jesus' life and miracles, the December 25th date... were part of the belief systems of pre Christian cults. In addition, other fundamental Christian beliefs such as transubstantiation, the divinity of a man from god or his compounding with god were derived from various pre Christian cults (Greek paganism, the cult of Mithras, some followers of Pythagoras...) The conclusion is that those beliefs were simply adopted by the early Church from then existent religions to attract pagan followers who were comfortable with those stories or dogma.

I am certain that web surfing, googling "skepticism", "secular humanism", or even a search of Wikipedia under the subject title and names of some classical period religions can identify a lot more information on the origins of the Christmas story.

Answer 5

even in the present world a living man is asked to prove that he was born and not made ,with a birth certificate to prove. and its also a fact that for money they even issue a death certificate to a alive man for property. This is the situavation in the present world. And your Qustion is of Fcuk in 2000 years before what do you actually expect do you think you are a genius from your question?

Answer 6

Just let Christmas be, look at the message not the history

Answer 7

I think there is but it doesn't coincide witg Herod's reign

Answer 8

Yeah, that leg lamp...not sure about that.

Answer 9

jesus wasnt born on that day