Has there been a change in training methods in the last 10-15 years?

Question

Is it just my experience with the trainers I've dealt with, or has there been a shift in training methods in the last 10-15 years?

I remember when I was training dogs in 4-H around 10-15 years ago, treats and baiting were a huge "no-no". We used only praise. And it was just unquestioned that we used choke-chains for obedience, show-leads for showmanship (similar to confirmation in execution; except the handler is being judged, not the conformation of the dog), and flat-collar for agility.

Now, every single trainer I know of uses either treats or clickers. And it seems almost nobody uses choke-chains anymore.

Is it just the trainers I've happen to come across, or has there really been a big switch?

If there has been a shift, what is your opinion of the change in training method trends?

st.lady37, Don't get me started on what I think we are doing to our children by being so soft and un-disciplinary to them! I could rant for hours!

Answer 1

An excellent question. I will be as brief and direct as I can on it. Yes, training methods have changed, typicaly for the worse, yes, dogs are not as well trained because of the new training methods that require clickers, food and negotiating with an animal that cannot possibly comprehend anything on a human level, at least not the way it is taught today.
People are quoting all these new "experts" and are forgeting that training has been around for a long time before these people showed up at the scene to "enlighten" us.
A dog is capable of two very basic types of learning. He can learn drive moods and involuntary reactions, classical conditioning, and he can learn simple skills, instrumental conditioning.
Either method can be used, however, I believe it is impossible to teach a dog an exersice reliably, if, at some point in time, avoidance behavior is not used as reinforcement, meaning, complete training is not possible without the use of compulsion. The skilled trainer, however, knows very well how to administer compulsion in the correct dosage and with direction.
The important thing to remember is this: The handler uses the correct appetence, the correct trigger stimulus and the correct drive goal as reinforcement!!
Today we have people who are aversive to prongs and Electric collars as traiing tools without understanding anything about their use or having ever used them before and as a result of that behavior and the refusal to train or see a dog as an animal has resulted in more dogs sitting at the pound then ever before. What does that say about todays traiing methods?

ADD: Stacy, what happens when you recall a marine or zoo animal and he does not respond? He simply goes to the other side of the pool/cage.. What happens when you recall a dog and he does not respond, because there will always be something out there that is MUCH more tempting then that clicker/food/praise you offer? I will tell you what happens, he runs on the street and goes "SPLAT"!!!
Have you ever tried to put a prong on a bear or a whale? Does not work!! The worst thing that can happen is that they will not perform and you get someone else to do it. Does not work like that in real life though.
Yeah, the world may be flat, but, the reason you are not running that red light is not because you were clicker conditioned, it is because of the fear of a ticket!!
I am interested in that bridge!!!!

Answer 2

I know when I started training in the early 1980's, the training method was to be rough and tough and being in control of your dog was a big thing. I tell ya...the trainer I went to seemed a bit mean. Then, it changed in the late 80's to early 90's to the type of training I think worked so much better. It was all about praise and positive reinforcement. Treats were encouraged during training. This method was much morre effective than the other method I was introduced to.

Answer 3

Less use of aversive "corrections" with the choker, more emphasis on positive reinforcement of desired behaviors than punishment of undesired behaviors.

It's my impression that chokers are still used, just not emphasized as the primary training technique. There is still a place for the use of aversive stimuli in training, but at one time they were the thing that was emphasized over anything else.

Clickers and praise are both secondary reinforcers, and effective only if conditioned to a primary reinforcer, such as food.

All the evidence from studies of reinforcement, punishment, etc., beginning with the work of B.F. Skinner in the 1930s to the present indicate that reinforcement of behavior produces stronger, more lasting behavior than punishment, which often has unintended side-effects.

However, I get the impression that a lot of people, including some trainers, still don't understand the basic concepts of reinforcement and punishment, why negative reinforcement is not the same a punishment, etc. A lot of people have picked up the jargon, without really having a basic grasp of the theory behind it. If someone wants to be effective as a trainer, I feel they should have a good working knowledge of both classical and operant conditioning, as those are the forms of learning that are in play when one is training a dog.

Answer 4

I think there has definitely been a shift. It's all positive reinforcement now, which I think is a good thing. But I may be a bunny hugger :-)

Actually, I think there are good parts to most training methods and that no method works for every dog. You have to see what works for you and your dog, and go from there. Personally, I never had much luck with choke-chains. Trying to "dominate" my dog didn't work either. I'm a fan of rewarding good behavior, and preventing/redirecting/ignoring bad behavior. For me and my dog, it works well, but I wouldn't fault anyone for using a prong collar on their dog (provided they're doing it correctly). I don't think a prong collar or shock collar is cruel, necessarily. I think the meanest thing is to let your dog go untrained. That's how they injure themselves and other people.

I do notice though, that most trainers are devoted to one method or another, and they don't seem to realize that some dogs need different methods/approaches.

Answer 5

We use a training collar for our sheppard-chow mix and he does well with it. It started as a barking aid, but we now use it instead of a tie-out when we are outside. We have a K-9 Contain'n'Train system that my sister bought on e-bay. It also had the underground fence, but they left it at their old house. Anyway, the benefit to this collar is that it has a good tone, a bad tone, and then 4 shock levels. Porter has only needed to be shocked once before he learned the bead tone means to stop. I would try to find a collar with that option, so you do not always have to shock him. He should learn the tone means stop or he will get the unpleasant stimulation. Hope this helps!

Answer 6

I am kind of a middle of the road person about this. I use a training method that does use choker collars, but not for jerking, just for the noise it makes as it restricts. I do not believe in treat training, because my breed of choice is a "stomache with four legs" breed, and I would never get anywhere with the training if I had a treat in my pocket. Also, my ACD seems oblivious to any kind of treat-she would rather be rewarded with a good game of soccer. She's a dog.
My husband trained our blind minpin to come inside with a clicker and it was very helpful to her. We have never done anything else with a clicker, though.
I do not, however, believe in any kind of negative reinforcement training, such as shock collars or anything that touches the dog physically. It pretty much isn't done in the wild in the dog pack, so there is no reason for it in our homes, the way I see it.

Edit: Good explanation, Stacy. I applaud you for not being narrow-minded and resistant to change, as many people are.
It used to be in the circus, animals were trained in very cruel ways to perform a specific act. This was done away with long ago-as it apparently was done in zoo and marine training. There truly is a happy medium between punishment tactics and downright stupid over-rewarding a dog.
I like to work with dogs who have been abused or feral. This requires absolutely no negative reinforcement and tons of patience. I actually adopt the ones with the least chance of finding a home. It is quite rewarding to get a dog trained who was terrified of people. Any of the negative methods applied to these animals would greatly reduce their chances of being good dogs in the end.

The stubbornness persists when people forget to have respect for life other than human life. That is pretty arrogant.

Answer 7

Hi,
Yes there has been a big shift but there are still many common sense trainers out there! I believe that a blending of poss and neg is the way to go.
The training should be flexible depending on the dog and owner. Many trainers get stuck on the this is my method thing and forget that many dogs and owners are different.
Cheers
Jeff

Answer 8

ooo good question! i dont know about a shift in dog training, but there has been a shift in horse training. with people becoming so health conscience, i think the way they handle/ treat their pets is starting to change as well. or maybe people are realizing that animals respond better to different methods. i am a huge fan of clicker training. i have used it with my dogs and currently use it with my horse. my horse especially respond very well to it. i find it much easier to teach him things like respect for personal space using the clicker. when he does what i ask, click, and treat. he does not grab, maul me for treats, or bite, or display bad behavior because he knows he wont get rewarded for that.

while i do feel that some dogs and horses need a more firm "traditional" approach, especially dogs with bad behavior, i also feel that if they are started with positive reinforcement from the beginning, its less frustrating for all parties involved.

also, i do use a choke for my big dog. for training and when i walk her outside (collars are too easy to slip out of imo). to me its like any other "tool" (spurs, crop, etc) when used properly, they get the point across with out causing fear and pain. however, they should only be used by someone who understands their purpose.

Answer 9

There has been a huge method change in even the past 5 years. I use no slip collars, which is not a choke, but not just a flat collar. I use it for safety - as they can no slip out, and of course when I am showing, show leads, or martingales.

There are tons of books out now on clicker use, and it is very helpful. If you have a class that you can go to, then I would do that. I bet that you would find the use of treats/praise methods will work very very well, without the negative connotation of the choke chains. The use of a clicker for me is very easy - and you can mark any behavior using that method. It lets the dogs know right then right there "HEY I DID SOMETHING RIGHT!!!" First you teach click=treat. then from there, you are putting words to actions. Once the dog learns how to learn your ability is endless!!!!!!! One of my girls is a therapy dog, and so we teach tons of tricks for her to show off at the nursing homes. One of my favorites is to sneeze. Yes it just a behavior that a dog does, but with a clicker you can mark it, name it and ask on demand.

I have dogs that have taught with regular jerk & pull... and click & treat. I much prefer the click and treat style because the dog is happier.

Answer 10

People used to think that the world was flat too. Time change and we learn what works best. Positive Reinforcement training has been used on marine animals for years. Now zoo handlers have found that they can more safely care for their charges using clicker training. You can teach a bear to stand up and open it's mouth byt he bars so that you can safely see inside. You can teach an animal to come up to receive medications etc. I started using clickers with my cats. My cat learned how to jump through a hoop on command in about 5 minutes. When I yell at him though to get off the counter he looks at me as if to say "get up and come make me". It's all about getting the animal to WANT to work with you and building their confidence at the same time. Negative reinforcement produces fear. Fear is an emotion that is counter-productive and will cause mis-trust. If you can find out what motivates an animal (or dog in this case), you will be able to quickly train it. Negative reinforcement teaches boundaries "No that's not right.", "No that's not right either". The animal has to luck into doing the right thing. With Positive Reinforcement methods you actually get your dog or other animal to THINK. They want their reward whether it's praise or a cookie and they will try all manners of combinations of action in order to get that click from you. So if you guys want to keep choking your dogs and alpha rolling them to instill fear I can find another bridge to sell you. I have news for you... the world is ROUND.