Why aren't the Oriental Martial artists taking the opportunity MMA has provided to now show their superiority?

Question

Now is the time it seems. After thousands of years there is finally a forum created where fighters representating a large majority of the entire world can set to prove who is ultimately superior-- and the Master's are nowhere to be found. ?
Finally an ample opportunity is provided them to give the rest of the world a glimpse of what they've been preaching for years.
I don’t understand why they are not taking advantage of this great opportunity to show first hand what the Oriental arts are about. What's even more perplexing to me is that the Master's still take the effort to continue talking about the art of fighting and fight theory when there is an open space provided them to actually demonstrate it live and in person. ?? Please some insight from Oriental Martial arts disciples would be appreciated as I just don't get it.

Jim R- My point is we no longer need to speculate about who would beat who. Current MMA fighters live up to their namesake, they FIGHT- this is more than you can say of traditional arts. I disagree that this could be considered showing off. Why wouldn't writing numerous books about something you're not ready to prove not be showing off?

I see it very simply- If the Masters and their disciples feel they have achieved excellence in fighting theory, and have seemingly been chomping at the bit through the years before there was a forum where this ideal could be tested --- if and when the opportunity is planly there and they do nothing but created excuses. If and when it is time to 'put up' or 'shut up' and they plainly choose to 'shut up' then that means they are done, and I never want to hear anything on the subject from them ever again. Isn't that fair?

mac- thats fighting between oriental schools. Fighting that you and I and everyone else knows is irrelevant today. Fighting that really was never relevant. When did they dominate the old greco wrestlers? How about the oldschool catch wrestlers? How about the Thais, when'd they prove dominance over them? What about Savate? I dont recall the orients pounding away English Boxers either. Certaintly not American Boxers. What do you mean they have nothing to prove? I'm unbiased, I am not stubborn to denying what works. I feel they have everything to prove. Everything.

BTW, what true Master of arts would not be able to convey his point or win a fight without the use of traditonally sports banned techniques? It's ridiculous that you'd use that as an excuse.

Yeah, now I kinda sorry I even asked the question. I expected some excuses- but on every answer?? Damn. I say fine, if your art is not condusive to the ring or the cage under rules-- (rules which many other arts seem to conform to without complaint btw) then you should stick to self defense manuals and set up classes to teach women and the elderly. Don't talk about 800 years of competiton, make 1,500 flims showcasing appliance of your art and then come out and say " well we cant actually utilize this art within the confines of your sport system." Pancrase wasn't accomodating enough MMA wasn't accomodating enough, Vale Tudo wasn't accomodating enough for you ( you notice the Brazilians never complained about testing BJJ in competition and in fact jumped at the chance, same with wrestlers and Thais). Ok. That's fine. You don't have to fight if you don't want to.

Come on here and talk about how it is beneath you to display your art without necessity. You're going to lead us believe that with the myriad of fight styles employed by the orient -literally hundreds of styles- these Masters can't come up with a satisfactory set of competiton friendly moves from their vast group of collective fight knowledge. Remember, all they need is enough to vanquish some lowley "ufc dudes". >> ?? This folks is a sign of an absolute charlatan.

Answer 1

they tried, they all lost and now they claim that MMA is not a valid test as an excuse for why they dont enter, or if they did for why they failed miserably, some of them now actually believe it. watch early and/or local MMA/vale tudo events, masters entered and got destroyed.

Answer 2

because frankly, the oriental masters feel they have better things to spend their time on. They teach people, and they don't really CARE about the results of the UFC.They TRAIN, they don't feel the need to go out and defeat a bunch of people. and also, the rules have been geared against strikers, because before there were no real rules, and the only reason BJJ dominated is because NO ONE HAD ENCOUNTERED IT YET!!!! now, almost EVERYONE knows about bjj. and ALL martial arts have some ground work. yes, even taekwondo. maybe not the super sporty schools, but ACTUAL taekwondo has ground work. The masters dont really like fighting anyway. master martial artists are some of the nicest, most humble, and non-violent people you will EVER meet. They feel that it is better to spend their time training and teaching their vast stores of wisdom to the younger people, rather than vainly proving that "ooh, my martial art is the most effective at fighting in a little ring against one person" when really, in the oriental martial arts, learning to fight is the LEAST important lesson you learn. really, how likely are you to be attacked? the chances of being attacked if you don't ACTIVELY SEEK THEM is about .00035% at maximum. This world doesn't NEED more punching and kicking; it needs more good people that help each other and don't seek violence and war.


Edit:
ok now you bring up wrestlers and Thai??? muay thai is THAI KICKBOXING! it was MADE AS A SPORT!!!! that is NOT a TMA!!! the wrestlers are even more so! how can you compare wrestling to the traditional martial arts?? most wrestling fights are staged! and muay thai is a sport, so of course they would join the SPORT of MMA. sheesh.

Answer 3

Actually in PRIDE they have and have held their own pretty well in spite of not being able to use techniques that rules in that and the UFC don't allow them to use. If you look at some of my other answers you will find among them where a Japanese master once told me that you will never beat a Judoka or Ju-jitsu stylist at his own game; so you don't play it and try and match him hold for hold, choke for choke. Instead you knee the groin, gouge eyes, bite, palm heel strike to the nose, rabbit punch, clap the ears, fish hook and that's just while you are on the ground. There is a reason why the UFC does not allow any of those techniques and I guarantee you that I won't win every time but I will definitely take someones eye out while they are working for a position to get that hold or choke on me in the street. For stand up it is even more relevant and so once again the rules for the safety of the fighters are what they are and if you look at how it started and with the rules and the changes to the rules you now see wrestlers and ju-jitsu stylists improving on their striking and kicking to be more competitive and stand up fighters working on their wrestling and submission skills to be more competitive. So nothing has or ever will be setteled in the octagon or ring more than it is now and I will also say that there have even been women out there that have been able to fight off a male attacker bigger and stronger than themselves by fighting dirty. In a real fight-there are no rules.

Answer 4

First of all, I participate in combat sports and love doing so. That being said, every sport has rules and you fight within the parameters of the rules for your chosen sport/s.
More often than not, martial arts are about self defense and most of their most devestating techniques are NOT LEGAL IN THE RING/OCTAGON! Self-defense and sport are two different things. Yes, there is some cross-over but you're comparing apples and oranges.
If you throw one of the Masters of an asian martial art in the octagon and have him fight within the rules of that sport then he may very well loose. Many of his attacks which he has drilled hundreds if not thousands of times must not be used or he will be disqualified for using unsafe, illegal techniques.
But if you take the Master and an MMA guy in a "street" fight, then the MMA guy may very well loose when there are no rules or ref to protect him. He can be victimized by an eye gouge, groin strike or tear, elbowed in the spine or back of the head when he shoots in for a takedown, etc. All illegal techniques in sport but not the street.
So the bottom line is each is probably superior in the area he chooses to specialize in and your "challenge" is ridiculous.

Answer 5

Firstly I'm a fan of mma and ufc fighting!!!

But having been a fan since 1991 when it all started I've seen a great change from the rules of, no weight limitations, and only eye gouging and kicking in the groin being the only barred techniques ,to so many rules being implemented these days that it barely resembles real fighting,and i would assume rightly or wrongly that the true masters of the martial arts world would advocate fighting with no rules period hence they would win as they would use techniques that are barred from ufc/mma fighting which is what got me interested in the first place but now I feel its not so realistic anymore ...sorry !!!

Former jiu-jitsu coach,boxer and bouncer :)*

Answer 6

MMA is not the be all of martial arts. It is a sport. Just like boxing, there are rules. MMA is a very hard sport to compete in, it is a tough workout, and there is great technique. Also, its exciting to watch as a fan, but its still a sport.
I know many martial artist that have no interest in any type of fighting tournaments with list of rules and illegal moves. They use the old "would a mugger/rapist let you tap out" argument.
The fight theory for MMA is different than the fight theory of a real life assault. The strategy for mma has been changed to fit the rules, but they still have one

Answer 7

Actually all the answers are appropriate. Martial Arts is supposed to make better "people". Martial Arts "masters" despise the term. I believe that the reason that 'true' martial arts masters don't participate in MMA is that the fight would not last but seconds. That and humility, they do not need to prove themselves in flashy, money making exhibitions. The one story my current teacher uses as an example is about a Japanese stylist fighting in a "kumite". Stood through the first round blocking. The second round his trainer/teacher told him to do something. The fight ended quickly... one punch and the fighter hit and turned around and walked away, knowing he had knocked his opponent out. People do not pay to see 3 second fights, they want to see a bloody spectacle. Most martial artists view this as a waste of time. As far as ground fighting being the hold up... don't think so, as an overall martial artist must learn how to fight sitting, standing lying down..etc. How many "experts" in MMA can bite their opponent, or strike in the throat during a match.

Answer 8

It would be fun I agree.
But from a traditional stand point it's showing off.
Kind of like street fighting to prove your style is effective.
Kind of a no-no.
Of course there was "Mas Oyama"

In 1952, he travelled the United States for a year, demonstrating his karate live and on national television. During subsequent years, he took on all challengers, resulting in fights with 270 different people. The vast majority of these were defeated with one punch! A fight never lasted more than three minutes, and most rarely lasted more than a few seconds. His fighting principle was simple — if he got through to you, that was it.
If he hit you, you broke. If you blocked a rib punch, you arm was broken or dislocated. If you didn't block, your rib was broken. He became known as the Godhand, a living manifestation of the Japanese warriors' maxim Ichi geki, Hissatsu or "One strike, certain death". To him, this was the true aim of technique in karate. The fancy footwork and intricate techniques were secondary (though he was also known for the power of his head kicks).

He fought 52 raging bulls with his bare hands killing 3 of them "instantly" with a single blow to the head.
http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/oyama/index.htm

Here is a question for you.....How well do you think today's MMA fighters,(UFC or otherwise),would do against this Traditional Martial Artist?
(don't make me laugh,every one of these popular MMA fighters would be lucky to leave the ring and not be crippled or dead)

EDIT:
OK comment boy,you have managed to get under my skin.
How many of your MMA "heroes" have fought 100 Black Belt men in a row? Answer "0",there is even a "woman" who endured this task.
http://www.australiankyokushin.com/kumite.shtml
I am all but retired for the last ten years,I am 51 years old,5'6" and about 136 lbs. and "I" would not think twice about stepping into the ring with "any" of the MMA guys fighting today.
I can't be the only one who has seen some of them so doped up,high or drunk they could hardly put a sentence together.Many of these fights are not at all impressive.
And BTW who the fock are you?
A look at your questions and answers history shows almost 100% some transgendered women studies & singles and dating! http://answers.yahoo.com/my/profile;_ylt=AijqbDL_9seXDaTdLE14Ng3sy6IX;_ylv=3?show=yFJHwPQraa
You are one of these potato chip eating,couch sitting,TV watching,know nothings that somehow thinks they have some insight into Martial Arts........"You Don't"!
Take my advise and go back to genderbending womens studies and singles & dating where you belong.

Answer 9

Winning at MMA proves that you have won at MMA.

Not that the style you used is better than the other persons, not that any style is any better than any other over all.

ill say it again, winning at MMA only proves that you have won at MMA. nothing more, nothing less.

what is fighting? is breaking limbs allowed? are multiple opponents allowed? are weapons allowed? does fighting allow throat strikes? does fighting allow eye gouges? does fighting have tap out rules? give me a break...

honestly at the end of the day, MMA IS a sport. it doesnt prove anything about fighting.

style and technique are not the final answer, its how the person uses that style and technique.

the styles that do well in MMA are the styles that are suited to the sport, boxing and wrestling are one on one fighting styles that are not about 'neutralizing' people, they are about 'winning', its a competition not a battle.

traditional arts like kung fu are about taking people out. if all your training is in this area and the 'rules' disallow most of your training.... whats the point in bringing it to a MMA ring? you cant use any of it?!

you might as well train in boxing or wrestling so you have more to use thats within the guidelines of the sports rules.


also, the people who are usually yelling the loudest always seem to me like they are trying to convince themselves the most.

if you are completely secure in the effectiveness of your style, i dont see why someone that secure should feel the need to prove it to anyone.

Answer 10

Hmmm...

Martial Arts masters using a westernized, stylized, Hollywood hyped MMA cage to prove the effectiveness of fighting styles that have withstood CENTURIES of testing, been used on battlefields throughout history, and are, surprisingly enough, used by many of the MMA fighters today? Does the name GRACIE mean anything to you?? I do believe in the early days of MMA/UFC fighting, the Gracies dominated the sport. And I do believe that Brazilian Ju-Jitsu would qualify as a Martial Art.

You see, Martial Arts are fighting styles that were used by soldiers throughout history. Martial Arts are also not just a fighting style, but a MENTALITY. A TRUE Martial artist doesn't HAVE anything to prove; he knows instinctively that he can defend him/herself, and therefore a forum to test is unnecessary.As Yogi Berra/John Madden would say, "80% of the game is half mental". I don't have to fight you to know I can beat you. It's that simple. If you don't HAVE to fight, don't fight.

It would appear from the tone of your question and your edits that you are a bitter punk who has no self confidence, and therefore feel you have to continually prove yourself to bolster your self esteem. Maybe your Mommy didn't hug you enough as a child, I dunno. Maybe you got your butt kicked by a Martial Artist. Who knows? Fact is, you miss the point entirely.

Martial Arts is more about discipline, self respect, respect for others - EVEN your enemy, and integrity. NOT whether you can kick the others guys' butt.

EDIT: Alright, slick, since you seem to be such an expert, just what, exactly, are your credentials? Have you ever studied a Martial Art, and if so, how long did you study before getting kicked out of class because you were a smart-alecky, disrespectful little twerp? Do you have any sort of resume detailing yuor success in encountering and defeating Martial Arts practitioners, or, as I said above, did you get your little hinney kicked and are now bitter and looking for revenge? Are you looking for a physical fight here? Because if so, you are not likely to find one from those posing answers to your question here. It would seem that MOST, if not all, understand the concept of Martial Arts, although I would hasten to say that there are more than one here who would like to give you a demonstration of the effectiveness of their particular discipline. ANd that's where you go astray: DISCIPLINE. And respect, particularly self-respect. So MMA stylists like to crow about their accomplishments in the ring..woo hoo, I'm impressed, give 'em a cookie. Students and masters of Martial Arts understand that occasionally, it is wiser to avoid a confrontation than to engage in one. You seem to be cut from the cloth which says fighting proves how much of a man you are, no matter whether you win or lose.Maybe one day when you grow up, you will be able to understand that the true measure of a man (or woman) is NOT that they are tough enough to stand toe to toe with someone who will wipe the floor with them, but instead that having the wisdom to know when to engage and when not to is a truer sign of maturity.

Grow up, slick...

Answer 11

Because MMA is not a proper forum to prove the superiority of any 'real' martial art.

The Asians are not stupid.

The Asians have proven their martial arts in over 800 years of combat, duels, and fights between schools. They really have nothing more to prove.