"Is It True, Once Saved - Always Saved"? Is there error in Eternal Security and Probationists positions?

Question

Lets call the people who believe "once saved , always saved", as believers in Eternal Security, and those who do not as Probationists. I believe there are areas where both groups still essentially agree and I believe there can be gross error in extremes of both positions, that produces a false gospel. Example- If a sinner comes to the Lord, the person as far as anyone can tell, he has become a Christian, both groups would accept him and be in agreement that he is saved. But if in a few months or years the person then forsakes church attendance, perhaps denounces Christianity, goes to drugs, liquor, adultery and worse; both groups would probably conclude the person isn't saved. Both sides would now still be in agreement that the person isn't saved. The disagreement, - the first group would now say , “He proved by his actions, that he was not truly saved in the first place”; the Probationists would say " I know he was saved, but he lost his salvation.” Those believing in Eternal Security might quote 1st John 2:19 to justify their position. "They went out from us because they were not of us", or Jesus words about some who would in that day claim they had even done many wonderful works in his name and He yet He says to them "I NEVER KNEW YOU”, not ‘I did know you ,but now that you messed up I don't.’ These verses are convincing! The Probationists would say, " O I know that he was saved". But can you know for sure? The word says man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart. In the final analysis no person can be 100% positive that someone else is saved.

There are errors on the extremes of both groups; what are they?

Errors from the Eternal Security camp;- many I believe will accept as saved those who really aren't. Some people have a non-saving belief (John 2:23-24), or have not repented of their sins ( Luke 13:3)], or have not accepted Jesus as God (John 8:24),or trust in their water baptism (Galatians 1:8),or their own righteousness ( Galatians 2:21 ), so really are not saved at all. The Eternal Security people may quickly jump to their "Once saved -always saved doctrine as proof,- yet these folks never were saved. The Bible DOES say " Examine yourselves whether you are in the faith", not all that claim to be saved are saved.

What can be the problem with the Probationists position? They say, “You can't just believe, you've GOT to live it". When they say that, they have moved away from the true gospel ,which says Jesus did the total work for man salvation. It is NOT what Jesus did PLUS "living it", or any added thing! Others would add being water baptized, keeping the Sabbath Day holy, faithful church attendance, attending Mass or any number of things . To add any of the above or any other thing to Jesus shed blood, His death burial, and resurrection, and the sinner coming to God in repentance and receiving Christ by FAITH ALONE is to change the gospel to another gospel that will not save. (See Galatians 1:8)

No one has a card in his wallet, signed by Jesus stating he or she is saved. The ONLY proof any one of us has, is by the promises in God's word, and then understanding them correctly, and being honest with ourselves that according to what the word says, WE ARE AND WILL BE SAVED. There are some verses that seem to back the Eternal Security position. For instance, John 10 :28 Jesus said, " I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish" and the John’s words in 1 John 5:13, "These things have I written unto you that you may know that you have eternal life." And there are other verses that seem to back up the Probationists position, such as, " You have fallen from grace" and " You are saved if you keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain", and "Christ has become of no effect unto you.....". All verses being inspired by the same God actually do agree if we will understand them properly. Some only want to understand them by their own interpretation, but 2 Peter 1:20 says "....no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation". I believe the answer is this. Because we all read the same Bible, the Bible addresses all of us, it doesn't know if its a Christian or a non-Christian reading its verses. So when we are examining ourselves ,"whether we are in the faith" if we were to discover that we have been trusting in a false gospel, then the Bible asks us to consider ourselves as fallen from grace. Lets look at some categories of verses and what might be plausible answers to help our understanding in what it takes to have, or maintain salvation, and what if any errors the Eternal Security or Probationists may be making.

· Verses that connect a changed life and obedience and no gross sin as accompanying true salvation. [ 2 Cor 5:17, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Eph 5:5, Rev 21:8, John 5:29, Gal 5-24, 2 Thes 2:12, Heb 5:9, Heb 9:28, 2 Pet 2;21 1 John 2:6, 2:4, 2:9, 1 John 3:7-10, 3:24, 1 John 4:8 ∓mp;mp; 13, 1 John 4:7, Luke 6:46 ] It is true a real change does accompany true salvation. The errors being that the some in the Eternal Security camp have missed this and therefore call some saved who really aren't. The error of the Probationists is in making the change a requirement of salvation rather than a result of salvation. Thus changes the gospel to a false gospel of salvation by works.

· Verses that say that repentance of sins is necessary for salvation. This is true! The error of some in the Eternal security camp is that they apparently omit this doctrine even though it is clearly taught. They substitute their human reasoning and may incorrectly label repentance as a "work" and therefore think they have grounds to eliminate it from the gospel. The possible error of the Probationists could be they think that anyone who commits any sin can be labeled as having not repented, not realizing that true Christians do sin and this breaks fellowship with God, not relationship to Him.( 1 John 1:9 instruct God's children how to restore that fellowship through confession of sin)[ Luke 13:3∓mp;mp;5, Mt. 3:2, 4:17, Mark 1:15, 6:12, 16:30, Acts 2:38, 3:19, 17:30, 26:20, 20:21, Mt. 3:8, Mark 1:4, 2:17, Luke 3:3, 3:8, 5:32, 24:47, Rom. 2:4, 2 Cor 7:10, 2 Tim 2:25, 2 Peter 3:9 ]

· Verses that connect Salvation with being born again - accepting Jesus deity, believing in (receiving) Him. Both groups accept these without error. [ John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 1 John 5:11-13 Rom 10:4, 9∓mp;mp;10]

· Verses that connect salvation (justification), with it being a free gift, by God's grace, through faith alone.The Eternal Security folks are OK here unless in doing so they go so far as omitting repentance. The Probationists could error by here trying to add human effort in addition which would be error. [ Eph2:8-9, Rom. 11:6, 8:1, 6:23, 3:27-28,Gal1:8-9, 2:16, 2:21, 3:18, 3:21-22, 4:19, 5:2-4, Rom 4:4-5 ]

· Verses that connect true salvation with continuing in the faith and holding on to the gospel as a sign of, or necessary to, claiming salvation. Continuing in the faith is a positive sign that really takes time to see if continuance prevails. However one can have other positive signs without giving yourself years before you claim to be saved. It certainly would be a sign of great concern if one didn't continue in his faith as 1 John 2:19 says, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be manifest that they were not all of us." Errors on the Eternal Security side could be in maintaining their position so strongly that they accept as a saved person who hasn't continued in the faith; they may incorrectly try to label him as a backslider, instead of a person who was never saved in the first place. They thus may let him slip off to judgment instead of witnessing to him and giving him the gospel. [ 1 Cor 15:1-2, Col1:22-23, 1 John 2:19, 2:24, 3:25-26 ]




Galatians 1:8 teaches that you cannot change (add to or subtract from) the true gospel and still have a gospel that will save. Changes to the gospel that some make is by adding to the gospel water baptism, keeping the Sabbath day holy, attendance at Mass, circumcision, keeping the law of Moses, or the keeping of commandments. Keeping the Lords commandments must be the result of salvation, NOT part of salvation's requirements.

The following is some evidence that water baptism is not a part of the true gospel.

Many verses that promise salvation that do not mention water baptism. 1Cor1:21, John 5:24, John 3:16, John 3:36, Romans 10:9-10

Words of Paul that Christ did not send him to baptize folks ( 1 Cor 1:21 ) yet he was to preach the gospel, and the gospel is credited with bringing salvation ( Rom 1:16, Claimed the Corinthians were his children (1 Cor 4:14 , 9:1, 2 Cor 11:2), but he baptized few of them ( 1 Cor 1:14), so they were saved without water baptism!

Evidence Paul was saved on the Damascus Road before his water baptism, he called Jesus Lord, was addressed as a brother (probably in a Christian sense) by Ananias, was able to see physically, and was filled with the Holy Spirit (Hard to call a man lost when he is filled with the Holy Spirit)

Due to the fact that Paul stressed the fact that Moses was justified before circumcision ( Rom 4:10-11 ). It follows that one is justified by Christ alone before water baptism. That is if God is going to be consistent with Himself in His position that He is not accepting anything man can do as part of his justification. He has made salvation by faith alone so man has NO part in saving himself; it is by grace alone , Rom 3:27, Rom 10:4. God wants all the glory for granting salvation with unmerited favor. He evaluates man's righteousness as filthy rags when it comes to justification. ( Isaiah 64:6).




Regarding Mass, it is not only NOT a part of the gospel , it contradicts the gospel of the finished work of Christ. [ Hebrews 9:24-28, 10:10,14,18 ] Roman and Orthodox Catholics teach water baptism and Mass IS part of their gospel.

Regarding Sabbath Day keeping; it is not part of the gospel, see Romans 14:5 Seventh-day Adventists identify those who are saved. as those who keep the Sabbath.

Answer 1

Whoa, that is a whole lot of information, and a very short space to reply.

The once saved always saved doctrine is a lie. You surely cannot just profess a belief in Christ, and never have any fruit in your life as far as furthering this acclamation. Thus, those claiming belief, yet not continuing in this faith (fruit) have a false faith, and only an intellectual belief.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

We are warned about those who would be tares amoung us. This meaning that they would look exactly like the real thing, yet inside they would be void of any substance. To look upon them, they would look exactly like the real thing, yet God, knowing the heart, would be able to tell the difference. These are NOT those who would be out there commiting adultry, stealing, murdering etc, and are not so easily discerned. Now since this is not so obvious, we are not to try to pull them up, but allow them to remain until God sends His angels to sort the crop.

The only way we may judge those who would seek fellowship within the body of Christ is by their fruit.

Matthew 7:18-20

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

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Another 'whoa', in that I just read your profile, and think you have some issues of your own.

Answer 2

That was looooong. LOL I hope you don't mind that I skimmed.

The Bible makes it clear that once a person is saved they are always saved. When you believe, you are placed in God's hand and nobody, not even yourself, can pluck you from God's hand. When you are saved, God gives you the Holy Spirit, and He won't take Him away from you! There are no verses that uphold the position of those who believe you can lose your salvation. None. All the verses support the fact that salvation is eternal.

The thing is that it's hard for us sometimes to know the difference. People who are truly saved can do some pretty stoopid things. Look at King David. He was a man after God's own heart, and yet he commited adultery and murdered a man. Look at the letters Paul wrote to the churches - they are full of rebuke for some of the awful things the believers were caught up in. These people seem to be saved, yet they were in gross sin. So sometimes we can't tell the difference - we can't always tell if a person was never saved to begin with, and they have wandered away because they weren't saved, or if they really are saved and they are just screwing up big time.

The most important 2 things to remember are this: 1) once saved, always saved, even if you sin; 2) we are NOT saved by our works, but by faith.

Answer 3

yes its true Can I, as a believer in Jesus, look up lesbian porn and have an orgy with a bunch of girls all the time? no because that is sinning when your saved you don't seek to commit sin or continuously live in sin once your saved changed and regenerated by the holy spirit your saved for eternity why do you think its called eternal life? its not called limited life or life only as long as you want it to be

Answer 4

Once saved always saved is a lie, Judus was saved as one of Jesus disciples but lost it when he betrayed Jesus, A quote in the bible says that it would be even better if he was not born!

Answer 5

Hello dear!
If a comet the size of football field hits Earth, all life, as we know it, will be vanished!
Does this mean some were saved and some did not get the opportunity to do?

Answer 6

'The Lord knows those who are his' says the Bible.

Jesus spoke of the prodigal son being welcomed back into the Father's family.

Jesus spoke of the weeds growing alongside the wheat until the harvest when he will send in his angels to pluck the weeds out and burn them.

It is not for us to judge who are the prodigal sons and who are the weeds. We've got enough on our plates sorting out our own standing before God, for, as Jesus said, 'Beware, he who thinks he is standing, lest he should fall.'

I know that those who trust only in what Christ has done to save them are saved - no-one can snatch them out of God's/Christ's hand. Conversely, those who trust in Christ PLUS something else... well, that's where pride comes in, and we all know what God thinks about pride - don't we?

Answer 7

No it is not true once saved always saved. The Baptist think that way. In the Bible you have to work for your salvation its not granted one time and you keep sinning.

Answer 8

It is impossible to lose or "leave" salvation (1 John 5). Any who think they might "lose" it, might not have it to begin with.

Answer 9

Saved once ... after that repent. It is possible, after one is saved, to drift so far away that you’ll loose your salvation.

For example, if someone commits murder (criminal homicide), their soul is in jeopardy, even if they are saved. That's becasue there is no forgiveness in the flesh for that person.

Answer 10

So the divinely inspired bible's message is so clear that sincere Spirit-filled Christians can understand it without error or ambiguity, then...

Or not.