God and Time (can God be omnipresent yet impotent)?

Question

If God is omnipresent and omniscient, is he powerless to change anything in the universe?

This question is basically asking for thoughts on the nature of God given the nature of the universe.

Assumptions
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1. That time and space are connected such that before the creation of the universe (be it big bang or genesis) there was no time.

2. That God existed before space/time and will exist after space/time (if that ever happens)

3. That God is omnipresent

4. That God is omniscient

Basically the problem is this: If God is omnipresent and omniscient, he can't be bounded by time since time is meaningless to a being that knows everything about everything instantaneously. (also if God created the universe and thus created time, he would by default, not be bounded by time)

If he is not bounded by time, he would 'see' the entire universe from go to woah as a single (unchanging) entity . Therefore he can't make a 'decision' to change anything about that entity.

Answer 1

All the theologians I have read on this subject -- guess about 6 or so -- at least the ones worth their theological salt, say that God exists "outside of time."

I see 2 main things in your argument that I don't agree with: 1) your underlying definition of omniscience and 2) the assumption that if God can see the future, which is set in stone so to speak, and can't change it even if He wanted to.

1) God is, among other things, reality. What is real participates in God in a different (more really real way, as it were) than what is not real.

Human ideas are real, but they arise from a human's mind and will and reactions. God is in ideas, but not as strongly as in a horse, e.g., which is entirely His creation. The color pink is real. God is in the way we perceive the color pink via our eyes and our brains. Since pink is an attribute of something, not a real "thingy thing," and an attribute involves our own mental and visual mechanism (which God made but does not control because of the free will He gave us), God is in the color pink, but not as strongly as in a horse.

But pink horses or not real. They are not part of His creation. They only exist in our minds, so they are more our creations than they are God's creations. They are ideas, which come from humans, not God.

God's omniscience pertains only to what is real. Since God doesn't control our minds/perceptions/thought processes, God doesn't know what idea or decision we are going to produce next. He doesn't know that because they aren't real, and God only deals in reality.

And before some foamy-mouthed fundamentalists starts raving that "this takes away from God's omnipotence": no, it doesn't. It only allows for the free will that we have -- the free will to think and act on our own with no interference from God, except of course from the interference we ask for, such as grace and guidance.

*whew*

2) If you went the route that you are taking: that all of time is an integretous singularity of past, present, and future, God's omnipotence could extend to changing the future before it actualizes for us here on earth. What about God's unbounded-from-time nature would prevent Him from changing stuff however it please Him? If God did control un-reality the same way He deals with reality, what's to keep Him from creating a fixed future (or past for that matter) that He can "unfix" on a whim?

So to my mind, God's extra-temporal existance allows Him to be unaffected by time but also keeps Him in one eternal NOW, in which He is surprised by the future we co-create with Him just as much as we are.

If you read all that blather, you deserve a gold star. Here ya go.

Answer 2

Good line of argument, but remember what real time is. It's man's way of marking passage. We need to know that we are moving forward, no matter how small. If you are stuck at work for an infinite amount of "time" or marked passage, think how you would..well...go nuts! God, since He has existed forever, has no need or never really cared for the passage of "time". He is infinite, and therefore is above finite things such as space and time.

As for your question, if God created this "unchanging entity", wouldn't that in itself be a decision? If so, and God is omnipresent and potent as you state, with my addition of Perfect, then when He created this universe, and saw it from beginning to end, He would have created it perfectly, and had no need to make any decisions regarding it.

Now, if you speak of a smaller entity, such as humanity, God only judges based on human action. He makes the decisions based on the plan or the set already in place, which is indeed unchanging.

Finally, God can indeed observe the end of the universe, but as you state, He is not bound by time, and can navigate accordingly between the the two events of beginning and end, making His decisions as He wills.

Answer 3

As I recall.... certain branches of Judaism have actually accepted that as the only possible explanation. Afterall.. omniscience and omnipresence are possible without omnipotence, but the other way around is necessarily nonsensical. Throw omnibenevolance into the mix along with the existence of supposed "evil" and it automatically nullifies one of the aforementioned.... the only sensible candidate being the omnipotence.

Those Rabbis are smart... even if they are theists.

Answer 4

God is the Origin and Destination of the Universe and beyond life and death. All religions of world teach human way to get close to God. You give your Best, God will give thy Best. Ask God for help and forgive, God will help and forgive you. Pray; Worship and Thank God for everything. Remember wherever there is Happiness in Life, there will be Sorrow. To get Happiness, you must master Sorrow. For Success in Life; Believe in Self and God, Learn from Past, Concentrate in Present, Plan for Future. Have control on, be the master of, not the slave of your body, senses, and mind. Purpose of this Life is to Gain and Share utmost Knowledge and Experience to differentiate and choose Right, Good, God against Wrong, Bad, Devil. Set your Desire level perfect or OK to be brave, no low to be coward, no high to be cruel. You have rights of Survival, Self Defence, and Freedom.

Answer 5

You are correct. God is not bound by time and space.

Time and space is the expression, and unboundedness is the underlying unifier... so in one sense, the reality is both infinitely diverse and perfectly unified... opposites in perfect dynamic harmony.

The job of every human is to settle back into that perfect balance of opposites. This resource explains how it is done.

Answer 6

Think of it like this; Lets say a line of dime-sized balls of play dough were lined upon a table. You can see the whole thing, beginning to end. You can shape the spears and order them to perfection. You know what they'll look like if you take a part out or put another one in or just toss the whole thing out and replace it all together.

If an ant stood at one end it very well might not be able to see or even know about the round ball at the other end. This does not limit you and your control over the play dough in the slightest.

Likewise, God can see all of time, beginning to end. He can shape it and order it to perfection. He knows what it'll be if He were to take a part out or put another one in or if He just tossed the whole thing out and replace it all together.

You, being positioned at one point in time very well might not be able to see what it looks like at the other end. This does not limit God and His control over the space-time continuum in the slightest.

Answer 7

Yes! There can be divine interference. He made time. He saw the beginning from the end. I believe that is your answer. If not, feel free to ask Him yourself, not in doubt but in faith. Also, look up in the dictionary the exact meanings of those words, and I'll do the same.

Answer 8

You're either trying really hard to make sense of atheism, or your genuinely over-analytic.

God is unchanging. He is a Spiritual Being and not of the physical world where space and time exists.

Answer 9

Impotent?

LOL

Answer 10

if God is impotent he should try Viagra. Works for me.