where is the best place to learn to tango in Bologna, Italy?

Question

I live in Bologna and am interested in learning Tango - any recommendations for places to learn from?

Answer 1

Go next door to Spain.

Answer 2

hi
The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 5 Sep 2000 to 6 Sep 2000


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There are 8 messages totalling 527 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Denver Close Embrace Weekend report
2. tango in rome (2)
3. Tango Magic in Denver
4. Weekend in Denver
5. Tango Pedagogy
6. Fwd: Denver Close Embrace Weekend addenum
7. Bashing.




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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 10:44:13 -0500
From: Naomi Bennett
Subject: Denver Close Embrace Weekend report

I just got back from Denver this weekend for the close embrace
tango. Instructors were Tom Stermitz from Boulder, Robert Haulk from
Portland and Chris Nassopoulos from S.F. The last two men have been
influenced by Susanna Miller of B.A. Let me tell you, that the tango
leaders have much to learn from Chris and Robert about close embrace. They
are both masters with very different styles and yet they teach the same
concepts. They all have energy, enthusiasm and personality that is
contagious. Tom was the brilliant organizer and community builder that
had the vision to create this special experience for all of us. This
experience shows how much talent we have in the and USA that good tango can
be taught by non-Argentines.

I must say, we have some very talented tango instructors that are home
grown here in the USA. They all made an effort to keep the cost down so
more people could attend. The milongas were about 150 strong and the
classes were about 60 strong. The Mercury Cafe was a wonderful funky space
with lots of character. Denver downtown was great. The weather was perfect.

I stayed with a local tanguera (many of us did). What a treat to get to
know people well, share their homes and create friendships. I highly
recommend that tango communities put each other up to support cross
pollinization. My house is open to visiting tango people too.

There was a big tango weekend here in Austin but Denver called me to go and
I was most pleased. The Colorado Tango Assoc sponsored a tango picnic in a
Denver park on Sunday afternoon. It had a marble patio with flower gardens
on each side. The sunset over the Rocky Mountains was breath taking. A
Kodak moment with cool air, dramatic sunset and tango music and dancers all
around me. It doesn't get better than tango heaven.

So to all you on the list, don't miss the next one that Tom organizes!
Naomi Bennett
Austin, TX





Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:41:10 +0200
From: "Gabriella C. Marino"
Subject: Re: tango in rome

I agree with Helaine. I grew up in Rome and lived there until 2 years ago
but since I've experienced other places (and after a visit to BsAs) I don't
enjoy tango in Rome anymore. There are of course a few exceptions but none
of the people I know who dance well were in Rome in the summer.
Bologna (and environs) is the best place to dance.
Last weekend I was at a wonderful, magical tango party in Venice in a 16th
century ballroom overlooking the Canal Grande and was very pleased to find
plenty of great partners. Milan and Turin are very good too and the tango
community in Florence is coming along nicely.

Happy tangos,

Gabriella
Parma (near Bologna), Italy


Helaine wrote:
> What you describe is exactly why I stopped dancing in Rome two years ago.
...
> but after my first visit to Buenos Aires in 1998, I could
> no longer dance in Rome with any pleasure.
...
> Bologna is my favorite city for tango in Italy; you'll find some very good
dancers there





Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:18:01 EDT
From: Cherie Magnus
Subject: Tango Magic in Denver

From afar, the white pavilion glows rose in the sunset.
The surrounding colorful beds of flowers and fountains frame
the quadrangle of Grecian columns and steps. It might be on an
island in the Mediterranean but for the luscious green grass,
the tall skyscrapers lit up behind the trees, and the reigning,
distant Rocky Mountains.

Upon closer inspection, there's movement on the marble floor,
couples in deep embrace responding to music. Rollerblading
teenagers are perched on the stairs, familes are sitting on
benches to watch. On one side, there's an artist with an easel
attempting to capture the moment.

I'm there, too, and it feels like I'm in a movie as I respond to
a silent, expressive leader. We and the many other couples on
the floor are framed between tall columns against a golden
red background of sky and clouds. It's magic.

The perfume of barbeque smoke and other potluck food under
white tents feeds my totally turned on senses. I am in the
moment, and I am completely happy.

Am I dreaming? No, it's just the finale of the Denver
Triple Milonga Weekend, where I and many other visiting
dancers had the time of our lives. Through cooperation and
hard work, the local Denver tango community organized a
great weekend of live music, milongas, classes, parties, casual
lodgings of visiters, and fun for themselves and visitors from
all over the country.

I met, conversed and danced with many wonderful people who
I will never forget. Really.

Thank you, Tom Stermitz, Tango Colorado, the Mercury Cafe,
Chris and Cathy, Cammie, Dan Diez, Victor Sanchez, Dave, and many,
many others who this outsider doesn't know enough to mention.

But I know where to go next year!

Besitos siempre,
Cherie
Los Angeles





Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:01:23 -0400
From: Carlos Garces
Subject: Weekend in Denver

Other have said it better, but I want to thank the Denver local community
and the many other non-local tangueros(as) that were in Denver this
weekend. The music, dance halls and floors, dance partners and general
atmosphere were great. The workshops were also quite good - it wasn't
about how much the instructor could give you as most of us have been
dancing for several years, but how much you could give to your partner.

I have never had some many trips to tango heaven in one night as I did
every night I was there.

Anybody else wants to set another one up?

Carlos





Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:50:32 -0700
From: Carlos Lima
Subject: Re: Tango Pedagogy

Some days back Astrid wrote:
>
My first Argentine teacher in Tokyo told me [refering to] his boss, maestro
Kobayashi: "I can make a woman dance in four lessons but he won't let me"
[...] And what do you think, how long does it usually take to become a
dancer?
<
Soon afterwards she informed us:
>
I started with 6 months of private lessons, along with joining an
intermediate class [...] Of course this start is only feasible, if you have
the necessary finances, but if you do ... one private lesson is worth a whole
weekend workshop, someone said [...]
<
I waited for the professionals to address Astrid's postings, now I will give
my amateur answer. All I can say to the credit of my answer is that it is
grounded on successful experience of growing together with quite a number of
ladies new to the tango; helping them directly (informally, mostly just by
dancing with them, possibly dropping a few hints on request); practicing with
them; and giving them (solicited) amateur advice on where and how to seek
help. Oh yes, another thing is that it is consistent with the way practically
every tanguera portenya, past or present, has learnt. It is indeed possible
to get a talented woman, with some experience of partner dancing (but no
tango), ready for the social dance floor in four hours of individual
instruction AND LESS. However, this would not be the case for average talent
without prior experience. Six hours may be needed, perhaps even eight (worst
case). I am not talking about going out there and start acquiring bad habits;
no, I am talking about going out there and starting to improve with every
dance, even with not so great leading. I am assuming that she is going to
places where salon style predominates, and I assume that she will start with
an "open embrace" --- close embrace in salon is best left for later. I have
no experience on how long it would be for a milonguero venue. Milonguero is
ultimately easier for the woman, and INFINITELY easier for the man, as
compared to a salon style. But I suspect the woman will need roughly the same
amount of instruction before going out there and doing reasonably well.

What a lady needs to have before going to a milonga (salon style) and dance
credibly with average and better leaders is the following:
(i) a frame with ZERO tension or pressure but self standing and "active",
i.e., toned and responsive, no spaghetti; an inclusive, comfortable, embrace;
(ii) a proper independent balance "on base", that is, straight and forward
(i.e., with most, but not all, of the weight over the ball of the standing
foot, supple supporting knee at all times);
(iii) knowledge of the most salient points of technique concerning stepping
forward and backward, and the beginnings of a good walk: well grounded
(supple), passing of ankles, etc;
(iv) a lot of drilling in simple walks (forward, backward and arrepentidas;
in-line, outside partner's right, outside partner's left; parallel and
cross-footed, i.e., a level of comfort with being put on either system and,
more importantly, staying on it), with attention to proper "fronting" at all
times, especially in outside positions, walking straight when led straight,
stepping exactly where the lead is trying to take her, etc;
(v) a habit of waiting for the lead, knowing to stay on the foot the leader
put her on (in particular, "executing" pauses, calesitas, puentes and the
like correctly!); and not resisting the lead when it comes, nor trying to
"read" it; an awareness that following well entails (if the lead is proper)
not allowing "control pressures" to develop in the frame;
(vi) a sense for the lead for the trabada (stepping to the cross) and a
basically correct execution of a relaxed (rather than perfect) traba (cross)
as in a regular Salida;
(vii) awareness of the importance of fronting (in front of the man, parallel
shoulders, in intention, and as closely as possible in act), especially after
a lead that "disturbs" it, e.g., a regular ocho or back ocho movement (pass
forward / backward);
(viii) knowledge of the salient points of technique concerning the execution
of ochos and back ochos, and a passable-plus execution;
(ix) ability to follow the basic 4/4 half-note (2/4 quarter-note) slow-slow
pulse of the tango exactly, and to respond to leads modulating it, primarily
stops (pauses) and double-time triple steps (quick-quick-slow), under a
variety of circumstances; just and crisp execution of triple steps, exact
return to basic pulse; ability to keep strict time in the common rhythmic
patterns involving the traba (cross);
(x) after ochos are sufficiently mastered regular practice (if possible
daily) first of ochos / back ochos, later of the "molinete" as well (on a
square, NOT around a chair) in both basic pulse rhythm and the usual {slow
slow slow--a-} rhythm.

These are the things I believe are needed (in salon style) for a woman
capable of it to find connection, musicality, heart-to-heart, and all the
other good things of tango, with a social partner capable of supplying "the
other half". This is, in fact, my proposed initial core curriculum for the
ladies.

Can this be accomplished via group classes (plus associated practicas), and
how long would it take? The classes would have to be geared to producing the
results above for women, and a corresponding "course syllabus" for men, i.e.,
a good grounding in technique and enough tricks in the bag to enable them to
interpret the music in a simple but interesting way. I believe this is
PERFECTLY possible. It has been roughly approximated. I have seen plenty of
women coming on the practice and party floors with zero to eight hours of
routine group classes who went on to become fair to very good dancers within
months to a year or two. This is not infinitely far from the more ambitious
goal outlined above. How long? I would guess 50% to 100% longer than with
GOOD privates, at a much lower labour cost, and with advantages such as were
recently outlined by Charles Roques (29A00) on this list, and others.
For instance, while a few women find exhilarating nothing less (or is it
more?) than the conjunction of a great dancer (the teacher) with a raw
beginner (herself), the great majority of those whom I know personally liked
that once in a while, and to party, meet people, and be a part of an exciting
process of collective growth all the rest of the time. The former group does
exist in my neck of the woods. I am yet to see a good social dancer, or much
fun, or for that matter a mediocre performer, come out of it.

As Astrid noted, if you have got the bucks, what is wrong with privates?
Answer, if they are GOOD, nothing, quite the contrary! Given the typical
group class system today, if you have the bucks, by all means, look for the
best teacher in town and spring for it, you will be better off. But that is
PROVIDED the purpose is something like what I outlined above, and you are out
there dancing with the masses after 4 to 8 hours of lessons and as many weeks
of calendar time, or less. After that I would say that a woman can profitably
use one hour of GOOD private coaching for perhaps 20 or more hours of actual
social dancing. The theory of avoiding "bad leaders" by indenturing to a
"perfect one" (until one is duly imunized to the supposed bad effects of the
others) sounds logical and, more importantly, appeals to strong basic
impulses; but my observations, and apparently those of as experienced a
teacher as Charles Roques, disprove it. Of course, there are exceptions to
every empirical conclusion. A woman who tried and failed with my recommended
approach, then succeeded gloriously by throwing lots of money at the problem,
rather than lots of fun filled hours, would be such a counter-example. I do
not know of one.

Also, I believe that, regardless of approach, group classes, such as they
are, and practicas, should be a part of the picture at all times, i.e., from
day zero until the woman is a full fledged tanguera, or later. The right
attitude for a woman (meaning, "follower") to go to a class with is to follow
as well as she possibly can whatever the struggling leader is trying to
accomplish (lead is often too strong a word), if possible quietly filling in
the right movements when the lead is not yet there. What a difference it
makes to the learning process when the women in a class where some giro
technique is being worked on can execute their "molinete" movements with good
technique, and a two-sided co-ordination effort!

Now, OK, it is nice of women to come out and help, and collectively /
altruistically ensure that there will be a next generation of tangueros, for
tangueras to dance with. Is this all? Well, this is not an age for deciding
what to do on goody two shoes type of criteria. If that were all, the only
thing I could honestly tell a woman with money to spend, asking me whether or
not to go to group classes and subject herself to the various horrors often
said to be associated with them, would be: stay away and make a cross with
the chopsticks; let suckers do it. But it is not so. Several recent postings
on this list touch upon good reasons to go to class, ranging from learning
and establishing relationships to having fun. I am interested here only in
the technical reasons. Why do I say it is good to go? I could give you all
the reasons I have and argue them in great detail, but I do not need to. I
came to that and all other conclusions in this posting via the principle of
pie eating. What do the best / better dancers around do? How did they get to
be good dancers? What did the ladies growing up with me do? Which ones
improved fastest and best, and which ones stagnated? And so on. I will repeat
a few very simple sample conclusions. Ladies who focus on dancing with
teachers and celebrities, and either just take privates or dream about it
(perhaps taking just "advanced classes" between dreams), get nowhere as
social dancers, or as dancers, for that matter. Ladies who go out a lot to
dance with the rest of us get to be good, in proportion to the time spent
having fun with us ordinary folks. The very best dancers of both sexes often
have, or have had, regular working partners. (But not before a ripe time. One
that did it too early almost self-destructed, but was able to recover in
time.)

So this is my amateur advice. I have given it, or something along the same
lines, privately when asked to. It may not be entirely right, but it has
worked well a number of times. Oh, and let me add this. Teachers who
concentrate on private instruction tend not to like any of the following:
sensible and short "skill lists" like the one above, free of time consuming
micro-concerns and irrelevancies; practice partners; and camcorders for self
evaluation. You know, I once heard a nutritionist argue in the media that you
can learn about thinning from sumo wrestlers. Just do the opposite of what
they do.


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/





Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 23:14:38 -0500
From: Naomi Bennett
Subject: Fwd: Denver Close Embrace Weekend addenum

>Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 10:44:13 -0500
>From: Naomi Bennett
>Subject: Denver Close Embrace Weekend report
>Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
>
I just wanted to say more about Tom Stermitz that I left out of my first
post. He was our third excellent instructor in close embrace. He and his
partner had important observations and techniques that they taught us. And
the three of them coordinated their classes to follow, not repeat but flow
with each instruction. Tom was a very conscious organizer that wanted to
develop a tango community spirit and he succeeded.



>To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Reply-to: Naomi Bennett
>
>I just got back from Denver this weekend for the close embrace
>tango. Instructors were Tom Stermitz from Boulder, Robert Haulk from
>Portland and Chris Nassopoulos from S.F. The last two men have been
>influenced by Susanna Miller of B.A. Let me tell you, that the tango
>leaders have much to learn from Chris and Robert about close embrace. They
>are both masters with very different styles and yet they teach the same
>concepts. They all have energy, enthusiasm and personality that is
>contagious. Tom was the brilliant organizer and community builder that
>had the vision to create this special experience for all of us. This
>experience shows how much talent we have in the and USA that good tango can
>be taught by non-Argentines.

Naomi Bennett
Austin, TX





Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:18:40 -0700
From: "Pelayo Llamas, Jr."
Subject: Re: tango in rome

I danced in Travagliato, near Brescia, two sundays ago. I was visiting
from the San Francisco, California area. It was midnight and I came
into a room with two couples dancing, and three others watching. I
asked a woman to dance and received a disbelieving acceptance (Argentine
Tango? she said.) We danced a couple tangos and came off the floor when
Salvatore kept waiving at me. Where did you come from? Where did you
study? Came the questions in Italian. I made my best attempts to
communicate with my rudimentary knowledge of the language. Was I
Japanese? (I'm ethnically Japanese and Filipino.) I learned that they
only have a Brazilian from Paris who comes every few months to teach. I
danced with three or four other women before the milonga ended at 1pm.

Though most of these dancers had very little instruction, I found the
followers to have very good basic skills (one couple knew alot of
moves). They waited for my lead, I waited for them to follow. It was
real tango. They certainly had no idea what I was going to do, coming
from half-way around the world. It was a wonderful experience.

robin thomas wrote:

> I just came back from Rome. I danced almost every night I was there.
> Unfortunately most of the milongas where closed for the summer and,
> so I was told, most of the good dancers were on vacation. The
> milongas, which were open, were open for the summer only and may or
> may not exist next year. They were all open airand very cheap to get
> into which was deliteful. I had got the impression from things I read
> on this list that in Europe people danced more milonguero, in the
> close embrace. This was the opposite of my experience. I saw almost
> no-one dancing as close as I usually do in New York. The better
> dancers were dancing in a big open style doing lots of boleos and
> ganchos and actually quite a few of them were Argentines resident in
> Rome.
> In New York you don't get that many bad or beginer dancers at
> milongas because it can be very intimidating because the level of
> dancing is so high. It was surprising to see a lot of Italian men
> pushing and pulling the women with there left hands. They knew the
> steps but the way they were leading them looked awful to me, a lot of
> arms pumping up and down in time to the music too. A lot of women who
> I danced with seemed disoriented by how little I used my left arm. I
> came to the conclusion that a lot of the people I saw had been
> dancing for a few years but had taken not that many lessonsl.
> Italians are pretty stylish and so they tend to look good even if
> they have no idea what there doing and they can fake it really well.
> I'd be very interewsted to hear any other observations people had as
> tango tourists.





Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:49:42 -0700
From: Deborah Holm
Subject: Bashing.

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Alexis,
Thank you for getting drawn into this debate. I know that you did not
want to.
I also want to thank Al and Barbara Garvey for their response to the
incredible opinion of Linda Valentino (and her 30 some private emails
that supported her).
I get calls from the hotline in the Bay Area and these people are =
calling
from the airport so I guide them to the milonga of the moment, wherever
it is. And also tell them where the next few milongas for the next few =
days
are...
I also get calls from the conciege's at Union Square hotels asking me =
where
are the milongas at certain nights. These calls are for guests at the
hotels here in San Francisco and these are people from all over the =
world.
I'm sure that Linda Valentino will be very disappointed that our =
milongas
are simply the kind of milongas that showcase social dancing. And,
unfortunately, our terrible version of social tango. Linda, I am so =
sorry.
We will try to do better after hearing that you have such a disgusted
outlook on our dancing.
We'll try to do better so you won't feel the need to criticize at such
great length our efforts.
When we get better, we'll hopefully get the uplifting moral support
we need. I guess not from you.
Deborah
San Francisco







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