Don't do business in China? Is it better to have 30-mil people die of hunger like they did in the 60's then?

Question

That's right 30-million people starved before Yahoo! and GE went to China. 5-times the number of Jews that died in the holocaust.

It is so easy for people living in the US to lash out against China. Oooh, oppression this ... Oooh communist that ... Oooh, some guy went to jail for 10-years for mailing something that is marked "state secret" to a foreign agency ...

Don't get me wrong I think the Chinese government is heavy-handed and that the imprisonment of Shi Tao is regrettable. But it is neither Yahoo's fault, nor is it Yahoo's responsibility to try to change China's political system. Over the list 20-years, China has lifted 1-billion people out of poverty with the liberalization of their economy and the adoption of capitalism. China does not need the US to tell them what to do, the people are much happier than they were, and they are no longer starving to death. That should be enough for you and I.

Answer 1

China is not communist nor is it socialistic.
It is also often referred to as totalitarian and a dictatorship.
Both are equally as wrong too.

Communism:
is a the opposite of capitalism so therefore it is impossible they are communistic. The first people who were allowed to use limited capitalism were the farmers back in the 50's because of the failure of collective farming. The whole country is one huge capitalistic machine now.

Socialistic:
means the state controls all production, manufacturing and business. That is impossible as well since individuals own businesses and those state run businesses are a mixture of state and private working side by side. Currently today, less then 20% is state owned. 30 years ago it was 100%. Example, their oil industry is a mix of private and state working together and their cost per gallon of gas is $2.25. There are no taxes added, all the revenue and profits are done before that with both private and state profiting. The USA could do that same, but we'd rather pay $1 more per gallon then allow any kind of socialism to creep into our economy. Our socialism is through war for oil while ignoring what the people really need.

Totalitarian:
means the state controls all aspects of life. That is simply not the case as individuals are free to seek new employment, open businesses, travel at will, immigrate, buy homes, become rich, buy any consumer product they want without permission, in short, do just about anything the people in the west take for granted.

Dictatorship:
They have an election system in place that is at the province level. Those elected officials, who are elected by the people, are then sent to Beijing to represent the people there and those people elect the president, much like many government systems in the world, like Britain.

One party rule:
True, but in recent years the government is encouraging people from outside the party to become involved in government and politics. They can also hold high office, something that was unheard of a few years ago. China understands that it needs new blood in its system in order to survive and do the will of the people otherwise China will stagnate.

What type of government does China have?
At this point, it is hard to say, because it is a mixture of democratic ideals, federalism, socialism, and authoritarian. From what I can see, and how China likes change slowly, that it is slowly morphing into a democratic federal republic, much like the USA has now. But at their own pace, not the instant change that the west demands of China. China is smart enough to know that instant change can have social and political repercussions and its best to take it slowly as to not wake the angry dragon of discontent and descent.

Source:
My experience, living here as an ex pat from the USA
My web site.
http://www.pbase.com/sailingjim

http://www.china.org.cn
and see how their system works. Use their search engine and put in the words democracy, then communism, then socialism. You'll probably be surprised at the results you get. Keep in mind, the people read the same things you will read there.

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Looking at the China bashing pragmatically instead of with a blind eye like so many do.

The Amnesty International types of organizations depend on donations to survive. Therefore, they have a vested interest to believe one side of the story while ignoring the other side to keep up the hate and the money coming in.

Therefore, what should be done is we need to look into the lifestyle of the CEO's of these organizations, what percentage of donations goes into education vs administrative, salaries, etc.

What I find disingenuous with so many people is they will selectively believe these organizations on issues they want to believe, while condemning them on issues they don't want to believe.

Much of the information comes from people who have a ax to grind, or the information is collected from 3rd and 4th parties. Remember, we went to war in Iraq, in part, because of the word of ex pats who made claims that have since been disproved, even outright lies.

I live here in China as an ex pat from the USA and teach in a college. I expected to meet dissidents, and to date, I have not met one. The people in China seem to be very apathetic and it took me a long time to figure out why. It's because they have more freedom then anytime in their history and they are grateful for that. The biggest complaint I have heard about the government from students is they don't spend enough on education.

A final thing to ponder is Tianamen Square. Few in the states know why it started. It was because the government cut back on college spending and the students were upset. It morphed into a democracy movement and the crowds were huge only because the people were curious. The reason the movement was brutally crushed (I do not support that) is because with world wide attention, plus it was all over the Chinese news that the government appeared to be weak and could possibly be overthrown. The aftermath of that, is anyones guess what they would have ended up with. We are now seeing what instant change has done in two countries that we have gone to war with that never had democracy before and have a long history of human rights abuses.

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They have a very stable society and government.
Foreign companies are not afraid to invest there.
China learns by its successes and mistakes.
China is a very old and wise country.
China has an over abundance of brain power
China is very innovative.
China is not afraid to go outside of their country for answers to questions and problems they have.
China is very careful not to let foreign investment take over like they allowed to happen two centuries ago.
China plans for the future through five year and one year plans that are changable.
China's government is slowly morphing into a federal democratic republic, much like the USA but at their own pace.
China realizes that to limit people in government only to one party is counter productive and in recent years is encouraging people outside the party to become involved in government and even run for office.

China is much of what we want her to be and little of what we think she is.

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The one to really watch out for is India. According to the CIA world facts book, India has a population of 1.1 billion (china's is 1.3 billion) with twice the birthrate of the USA with family planning that is obviously failing. Then factor in that their poverty rate is increasing along with a widening gap between the poor and rich, then factor in they are expanding their military (china is contracting their military, reduced their military by 1 million last year. They are in the process of doing much needed modernization), in the future, I'd say India is a bigger threat.

http://www.cia.gov

Peace

Jim

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Answer 2

China has a huge army that is fully occupied keeping its own population under control, and invading and assimilating smaller neighbours like Tibet and Nepal. As for their business abilities, it is easy to run an economy when you can dictate the price of labour to your citizens. All you need is some traitorous corporation who will wreck their own nation's economy by laying off their own citizens and employing your new age serfs because of the short term profits. If you consider that kind of human degradation laudable or worthy of emulation you need to think about the long term costs. China jails dissidents, such as falun gongers, until some rich person can buy their organs. This is behaviour unseen since the death of Hitler. I talked to a person who had seen a protestor rounded up in Tienanmen Square within a single minute of her appearance, tossed brutally into a van and disappeared. That was this summer. Further, no nonethnic Chinese can ever become a citizen. Those of white, Deccan or Tagalog ancestry who were citizens of Hong Kong lost their rights when the Chinese moved in. The racism of the Chinese is complete. Maybe we should focus on China's way of doing business, and stop doing business with them

Answer 3

The Chinese businesses should not suffer, but children are dying, getting sick, being exposed to dangerous levels of lead which is retarding their ability to learn, giving them mental illness.

When the Chinese businesses agree to fix all these lead problems, and it is proven that they are taking care to do their part for the health of the world's children, then doing business with them is fine. When the fish does not hold too much mercury, and when the toys... yes TOYS... stop having dangerous levels of lead, then they can do business with the rest of the world.

This is a panic, of course, by those who are ignorant that the businesses are working to resolve the issues from China, however it seems that every day there is another report of another toy that was manufactured in China with unsafe levels of lead.

Who puts lead in a toy? There has to be a better way.

I don't think that the US wants to stop trade with China, and what does lead in toys have to do with Yahoo! ?? Just because I am not clear on that.

Thanks for your interesting question.

Answer 4

Thank you for your editorial.

But as for the "question" you pose, you've set up a false premise. One of China's alternatives in the face of a boycott of their poisonous products would be step up their R&D and quality control. With 30 million people on hand, they should be able to find someone to fill those positions.

No need for starvation.

Answer 5

I feel people should spring for a few bucks more and buy something that may last longer. like slippers and chairs. I bought both made in China and even pets got sick from smell, no telling what is in them. Yes I know our corporations went there to circumvent the environmental controls and you reap what you ....... Libby sells glasses all over for a buck and no lead. Nuff said. Take care. Agree on yahoo deal, you gots to watch out. Also I worked as a kid and it helped build character. When in high school only a few rich kids and mechanics had cars, now all do. Work for what you get, you appreciate it more.

Answer 6

One problem you're not considering is that much of the labor force in China is virtual enslavement (and yes, I have been there and seen some for myself) and also children.

It is getting harder and harder to find anything not "Made in China," and I am sick of it. Things that used to be made here are now made there, but the companies are still charging the same price for them, and it's not the Chinese workers that are getting a share of those profits -- it's still about corporate greed.

Another thing -- "capitalism" in China does NOT mean the same thing it does here -- for instance, the Chinese government owns ALL the land in China, so even if a person "owns" a company, the government can still confiscate the land it is on at any time.

My family has declared that 2008 will be "China free," and we are not going to buy anything made there.

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Answer 7

Thirty million people died and their population still exploded. China have more people than any other countries in the world. May be that was good for their population control and therefore help their economy.