Horse Training Levels?

Question

What would you expect from these horses?
A green horse? An intermediate horse? And a finished horse? Discipline makes no difference. Can be English, Western, Polo, Dressage, Racing, Barrels, Poles, Roping, Everyday Riding, Trail Horse, etc. If you were taking a horse from “start to finish”, how much time would you estimate spending on this project? Method used is not at issue. My question is directed towards how you would expect a horse to advance thru training levels (bits used at each level, length of work sessions, what is accomplished to advance to next level, etc.) to reach the desired goal. Reason for this question? I see a lot of this on Answers. “My horse is 9, I have been training him for 7 years, want to show, but I can’t because he has never been ridden in anything but a snaffle and he will not take a lead, collect himself, or backup, and I have a week to teach him this”.

Or “We got a horse from the track two weeks ago, we started training him and he will not bend, flex, sidepass, etc. Horse must be crazy”. I read these questions and think, what exactly is being considered as “training”? I sometimes think that a lot of people get into the “I am a trainer because I did not fall off” mode without ever realizing that it takes more than a few rides, a few treats, and the fact that you may have given a cue that you did not even know about. And then think your horse is broke. I used to think I was a great “trainer” until I worked for one of the top Western Pleasure people. Found out I did not know the first thing about training. Or about much of anything else. After spending 25 years of learning and listening to some of the best in the business, I consider myself passable on starting a colt, fair on advancing him, and still learning on how to achieve the totally “finished” horse.

This is not to knock anyone, but maybe make someone think about how truly trained their horse really is (or isn’t)

Answer 1

I spent last year hauling my new Paint show mare to one of the top AQHA trainers in Alberta, and boy, were my eyes opened! They work their young horses about 5 days a week, they ride anywhere from 45-60 minutes each time. The horses that they have in for four-five months I would consider way past the green stage and into the serious intermediant, because they have been handled consistently by talented pros, and yet they consider those horses green, green, green! "They're just babies," they say. I used to think that if you sent a well started horse to the trainer to be polished and finished for top level showing, you can achieve it in a few months. Now I laugh.
I guess my point is - discipline does make a difference. I can do my own trail riding horses from green to advanced. I can do my own Open show horses through the levels, although it would take longer. But to take a horse to top level competition is a long, slow, time consuming process.
I would say the average even tempered horse without any specific issues or problems will be green for at least the first year of riding. They will be learning something drasitically new all the time, and while they might accept those things willingly, they are really changing mentally all the time. Some horses stay green even the second year, especially if they are 3 year olds, who are like bratty teen-agers most of the time!
To me a horse is intermediate when they have their foundation very set, when they respond consistently to certain cues and perform willingly and respectfully. With some horses that can happen their second year of riding, with some it might take the beginning of their third year.
An advanced horse is a lifetime of progess. My current show horse will be coming 5 this spring, she is solid intermediant but not advanced yet. She still needs more seasoning - in a crowded ring she tends to raise her head and speed up in show classes, she gets fidgety in the warm-up pen if its really crowded. In another year of solid consistent work I'll probably find those traits settling down. She needs to come out of the snaffle bit and into a leverage bit this year, as she cannot be shown 2 handed after the age of 5. We still have classes that we've barely started to work on - her showmanship is at a kindergarten level, trail is kindergarten, hunter hack is maybe grade 1. Yet her rail classes and equitation classes are much more advanced.
And you cannot teach your horse to be ready to show in a week! Top pro trainers know better than this. But there are times you can teach them enough to fake and fumble your way through something a time or two. The problem with that is - your foundation isn't secure enough and tends to crumble under pressure. Your good horse starts to act up, because he really never understood the basics.
Horse training is a very slow process. We expect our horses to go to a trainers for 3 months and be ready to do advanced work and have no issues afterwards ever again. But think about people. We send our kids to school for 12 years and then off to college to polish their abilities. If people are smarter than horses, how can we expect more of them!?!?

Answer 2

Interesting question but impossible to answer in the space provided.
Back in the 1960s when I started training for others, it was felt that 30 days got you an intermediate horse: walk, trot, canter, stop, turn. If it didn't canter yet, and perhaps the turns and stops weren't good, it was green broke. If it could do a flying lead change and do any kind of lateral work it was finished. A year of riding would give you a finished horse.
Of course, not everyone thought that by any means, but many did and it was kind of the basis of most training
Now I'd say a green horse was one that wasn't solid in some situations but knew all the basics like backing, side passing, leg yeilding, would collect to some degree and extend in at least a trot.
I don't think they are ever really finished. There is always something else to teach.
I teach and train with a lot of beginners who just want a horse to go from point A to point B. They shouldn't have a finished horse because they not only don't know enough to handle one but they don't want to know that much. For them a finished horse is one that is afraid of very very little and will go where ever you point it. It stops well, turns easily and will back up willingly. It has a nice fast walk, a nice slow jog, and a easy canter. It should be able to move off your leg just a bit.
I'd want the horse going well in a low port, short shanked bit and it should neck rein.
Most of the people I've dealt with at first see no reason the horse should do anything but go when you kick, stop when you pull back and neck rein beautifully.

Answer 3

This is really an open-ended question because so much depends on the horse, the trainer, the methods, what it's being used for, how much time is applied, etc, etc, etc. I think that a totally green horse should be able to do the basics of walk, trot, lope, backing and basic collection within 3-4 months of starting from the groundwork. It is a bit ridiculous for a 9 year old horse to not be ready for the show ring. Many people just do not take the time and keep with training with consistency. Training is not a once a week for an hour thing. I think that a horse could be show ring ready for junior horse classes in 4-5 months. Obviously, more advanced classes will take time. Also, 2-3 year olds are really not physically ready for strenuous events like jumping or barrel racing until their knees close. A lot of the people that ask questions about horses they are training not being ready for showing are not people that really know what they are doing.

Answer 4

I try to never put a time frame on anything, it just seems to backfire. When to start a horse? When it's ready. Some get there at two, others may be five. I like the mind to be open and the horse to be comfy in its own skin.. Most can be considered green after about 30 days under saddle. To me, this is just a "go forward" horse. It can handle a rider and the equipment, but has no experience at anything and every day is a new day. I class one as intermediate when it can perform the basic maneuvers, not get fried by a trip to a show, can go on the trail and not spook about 50 percent of the time. Some horses get to this stage in a few months, some even quicker, but most take about a year or so to get pretty solid. I tend to not think of horses as finished. They are always a work in progress, but an advanced horse is in sync with you, handles new work smoothly, is fit and capable of winning a class or several. I love all levels, but truly enjoy the advanced horse like no other. My husband has a real talent with foals and youngsters, I can "finish" in several disciplines. We both work with the intermediates equally well. I have noticed, though... when all our horses are advanced and have been for a while, my mind wanders back to starting and the varied routine it provided. However, as I am getting older, I also tend to ponder on this a while and then go...... "NOT". I have a young lady I am mentoring now who is really happy to do the first two stages for me and I am inclined to leave her at it. Sitting in my chair at the rail and watching her evolve is a real treat.

Answer 5

A "green" horse to me, would have been started in its discipline. Ground manners would be established, and saddle work begun. Experienced riders ONLY.

An "intermediate" horse would be somewhere in between green and finished. It's a pretty big range. There would be some mastery of desired performance, some learning, and some unknown. No beginning riders. The rider needs to have good, basic riding skills, and shouldn't ask the horse to perform a task that they don't know how to teach him to do if he balks.

A "finished" horse is a seasoned professional for its discipline. The most unskilled beginner would be able to cue the horse under instruction and the horse would perform the desired task.

This is a great question. It also shows that a horse can be "finished" in one discipline, and green in another.

Answer 6

It all depends, but the guidelines I like to use for my own horses (which are Mustangs, so no prior training at all) is this:

Green Broke in 30 days
Dependable on the trail bareback with one rein by 4 months
Dependable on trail and during Mounted Archery or Shooting bareback with nothing but a neck rope at 1 year.

But that can be different with each horse. I have had some Mustangs respond very well and be riding out in the open bareback at a walk, trot, and canter with just a rawhide jaw rope at 3 weeks. It depends on the horse.

What I tell my clients is:
After 30 days the horse should be riding at a green broke level. At 6 months of constant work, they should be able to go trail riding with no trouble at all. After a year of serious riding, the horse should know how you like your coffee in the morning.

The trick to it is pushing the horse to keep them learning - always moving ahead in training, but not pushing so much that the horse starts to hate you. You need to keep challenging your horse or you will actually have a harder time with the training over all.

Answer 7

A green horse I'd expect to have it broke, yet still need ALOT of work under the saddle. It isn't fully trained and has alot of energy and sometimes can be pushy.

An intermediate horse, I'd expect to be level headed in a way, but yet headstrong at the same time. He's be harder to control than a kid safe horse, and might have a nasty attitude at time. Also, he'd have lots of energy and loves to go really really fast.

A finished horse I'd expect to know all the basics. Know leg commands, and knows it's leads. It can go fast when you ask him to, but usually stays fairly slow and steady.

From start to finish? I'd put in as much time as it took, especially if the horse has loads of potential!

The main thing for teaching a horse of any age, is time and patience. You can't show a horse how to do something once and expect them to know it and always do it when you tell them to. It takes time for a horse, even a young horse occasionally, to learn the commands for stuff. Some horses are fast learners (I taught my horse to trot at the sound of a kiss within 2 weeks) yet others take more time to get the hang of things.

Answer 8

I agree with firefly it all really depends on the trainer, horse and circumstances. Here is my take ona green horse. A green horse is one that knows the very basics of riding.... which to me are accepting a bit and bridle , accepting saddle and weight of rider on back. knows basic commands such as walk and whoa , maybe even a bit of a trot and lope. plow reining and the begnnings of bending and flexing. An intermediate horse is one that knows how to work ata walk , trot and lope , plows reins is doing well neck reining and listens to you commands and tries to execute them properly to please you. Has been started on whatever event they will eventually be "finished in" A finished horse is one that has had all his extensive tarining done, works well at all gaits and obeys verbal commands well............. is broke enough or trained well enough anybody could just about ride him. Ipersonally don't start breaking a horse until the age of 3 and I take a LONG time doing that. Most of my horses I don't consider finished finished until they are baout 6-7 years old if even then. it depends on the maturity of the horses mind. When it comes to training barrels I'm one of these peple who refuses to rush a horse. I take at the very least 2 years and while I may nto be running bih , hard and winning big, my horses during this time learn consistency and keep "sane" I have never had a horse blow up on me , go pattern sour or gate sour when I have taken at the very very least 1.5 years to train on the pattern. One horse I trained this was is still running and beating horses 10 years younger than her and she's really not fast fast, just average, but all these others get so hot and bothered and gate soured that they are a ahndful to run, she wlaks in and jsut does her thing and come sout, usually the winner. As fr advancing in bits I use only 3 types mainly. I break them in a full cheek or o ring snaffle , start my barrel training in a wonder bit and when they are finished on the pattern I adjust to a lifesaver snaffle. For competition I use the lifesaver, trail and arena work i use the ownder bit. B/c of this my horses have come to know that one bit means let's go hell bent for leather and the other is "oh ok we are playing/working light today." i generally don't take on others horse form start to finish. I liek to take too much time with them so I stick to my own. I will start a horse for someone or i will take a horse that has been started by someone else and finish it , but not the 2 together like i said unless it is my own personal horse. But this is just my method of doing things:)

Answer 9

I Breed reining horses in Northern GA. From green horse to show horse it is about 2 years. We like to start them as yearlings. Saddle them get them working in a round pen, and at the end letting you sit on them. We do this on and off for about a month. Then they go back out to the pasture for 5 months. This just makes it easier when you come back to work with them later. Then they start their training as 2 yr olds. From round pen with just a halter on, to riding with a half breed(bit). Flexing, side pass, ability to be soft and round up. Next bit we go to is the snaffle. As 3 yr olds most are going to be out of a snaffle and in to a solid bit or correction. At this point they should do it all. You can start showing 3 yr old half way through the show season. They have to be riding well by then. But that is just one riding style.

Answer 10

This is an actual quote from a boarder that is 2 pens down from my mules...

" I am training my horses and I know how to do it because I watch RFDTV."

This is also the boarder that can't get a farrier, can't get a vet, I absolutely dive under the horse trailer when I see her headed my way. She has 1000's of excuses for her horses behaviours because they were all 'abused' and she 'rescued' them, and off they will ride into the sunset. She is living in a KMART Quarter horse ride dreamworld. Unreal....

Oh, and she bridled a horse with the BIT BACKWARDS!! ahhhhhhhhhhhh

Green horse- 30 days training, started, walk/trot/lope, back.
or with driving training, under 20 hookups. (I start all my guys driving, so they are usually better undersaddle )

Intermed. horse- knows leads, may not be consistent. Shows more refinement, more framing up etc.

Finished- bridled bit horse, consistent on leads, consistent on transitions, side passes, pivots, frames up, soft in the face and body.

From start to finish- I start driving mine at 3, in a snaffle (ground driving at 1 yr old, in a halter) and finish I would say 5-6yrs old, to put them to a bridled bit, get them solid in everything. However, mules mature slower too, and I don't push issues alot, I go at their speed and mine.