"Humanity" - Time = ???

Question

That is: without a linear time-frame (past, present, and future) what would be left of our self-concept?

For example: imagine if, on the day Einstein was born, the newspaper read "Einstein is Born!"

Small- Great answer! You were my second choice, by virtue of your final line.

Artiststree- Lol. Nice one. How do you know that “moot” was not my point all along? I think Humanity would be incapable of accepting “irrelevance”.

Zingis- Thanks for the mind-bending answer. I no longer understand my own question.

Szyn- Your answer twirled my imagination, although some believe that any attempt to change a known future would simply *create*that future.

Hempsted- Loved your analogy, but giving you BAs creates too much controversy! LOL. :-)

Professor - When are your office hours? ;-)

Answer 1

Einstein made reference to the curvature of time, Chaim Potok talked of the non-linear nature of time, the immediacy of remembrance and reorientation of history, Leibniz spoke of time as monadal, perhaps there are tesserae in time, convolutions, infoldings and occasional collapses, stops and starts. Time and space are categories of human consciousness relative to our understanding and orientation, solar and lunar cycles, pulsars et al. Wittgenstein in his later period said our questions such as this are delusional when we think them logically probable. Personally I would sit outside of time and scratch my head, either that or my backside. Mirabile dictu. Perhaps humanity would collectively enter the Aboriginal Dream-Time. We needn't worry about our self-concept, it has already undergone countless re-evaluations of this conundrum, and can do quite well apart from linearity and causality. We might enter a Black Hole and emerge on the other side transformed. Entropy may catch up with us. Any of a number of eschatological scenarios might unfold. There is nothing to say that the universe will not one day collapse in a reverse of the big bang. But all these are speculative and entirely outside of our infinitesimally minute scope of time and relationship to the universe, as though our earth itself were the minutest charge on the edge of a sub-atomic particle at the head of a pin. Yet we presume to dance with angels..

Once in every thousand ears there is a small bird that flies over the Himalayan Mountain range with a silken scarf in its beak, brushing the tallest peak. When the mountains are finally eroded and washed to the sea in this manner, a new age will begin. This process has already happened countless times outside of memory, and each age thinks itself the totality of our universe. Perhaps it is. We have mountain ranges on the North American Continent that are very ancient, now almost completely eroded, such as the Ozarks, and others far newer only recently heaved up from the bottoms of ancient oceans. Geology is a fascinating reference point for time.

[Time and space are entirely relative to human consciousness It once was a given that no one could traverse the Atlantic Ocean in less than three months, yet I could board an SST in New York and have dinner and a brief nap, awakening to Croissants in Paris, with a whopping case of Jet lag from having moved back in time, i.e. lost more than an hour during the evening and night. It may take me a couple of days on the ground to recover the sense of the time I lost. Of course there are drugs and supplements to help my nervous system adjust, but as I move out in space at faster speeds the effect is even greater. How many days did John Glenn go through as he orbited the earth? Was time lost or gained? By spatial reorientation may we collapse or expand time? Is there a necessary interdependence between the two categories? It would seem that some of our simpler experiments put that perceived reality to the question.]

[It would be interesting to ask what happened to time at Alamogordo, then Hiroshima and Nagasaki as matter suddenly vastly expanded and then imploded, was there a collapse of time, even momentarily? What was the source and relevance of the quote, "I am become Shiva, Destroyer of Worlds."? I think this relevant to discussion of time, space, and humanity.]

Answer 2

The situation of not having the future severed from out of our minds implies that the past cannot be changed, and that the world is a never changing source of sure bets.

If otherwise, in such a state, humans would try reversing their destiny to something that they find more interesting. Hence, the world would be in a constant state of futureding or a new tense of time - a past future tense where the world is in a state of fluctuation where actions change the outcome of the future and so the future would be madly volatile.

Answer 3

Without the linear time perception, there is no perception of any event possible..... thus humanity would exist and also be extinct at the same time in different zones of time... everything would be happening at the same time, the birth and death of the same person as well as all his forefathers and successors.... absolutely mind boggling imagination.... actually I find it impossible to imagine coherently!!!! Actually I can't see even space being what it is because space at once would be of zero and infinity dimension if we believe the Big Bang theory.... that means there would be no definition of space either. The only way I can express all this is that.... there would be everything as well as nothing at once and at everywhere as well as nowhere!!!!!!!!! Without the three dimensional space and linear time dimension, we can neither perceive nor conceptualize nor imagine whatever!!! We are bound by such space and time and beyond those boundaries are beyond our understanding of self or anything else.

Answer 4

There wouldn't be anything left so your point is moot. Basically stepping out of the linear time format would negate the need for Einstein because not only would his birth had been foretold but all the knowledge and discovery which is attributed to his life. Therefore the the headline would read "Einstein is born but we don't really need him because we already know everything that he is going to do"

Answer 5

This kind of goes beyond just perception... using your example, both the birth of and future of Einstein were known at the same time.

Have a hard time to 'keep it simple' in that, with that thought, our place in space (which is dependent on time) would be shifting always... the earth we stand on might suddenly melt as the drift of our solar system becomes evident with the sun suddenly in our place. hmmm...

If string theory is correct, it would allow us to choose a different course towards our best possible time-line. For example, if Hitler suddenly realized at age 5 that he was going to be a dictatorial madman, he may choose not to go down that road and instead head out on a decision making binge that switches the headline to 'Hitler nominated for Nobel Peace Prize'. It would be making decisions with some harbingers of what each decision unfolds for ones future.

But it would depend on the way this melding of time is revealed. Is it a constant stream of just seeing your future? or like your example, would it come out in sudden revelations of what is to come? If the former, perfect vision of each choice made, if the latter, signs and omens...

Can't really get my head around it...
Thanks for the mind bender.

Peace

Answer 6

If you remove the linear component of existence then the universe is reduced to nothing. There would be no newspaper proclaiming the birth of Einstein because that would be a product of a linear concept. There would be no beginning, no end. There would be an simultaneous time-zero and a time-infinite. There would be nothing.

Answer 7

Great Question, but I have a plane to catch in a few hours and I haven't even packed yet! LOL LOL (-:

Anyway, if the question is still open by the time I get back [in ~ 5 days of your linear "TIME"], I'll give it a valiant try. (-;

Meanwhile, try to read about "Tachyons" - I'm sure you'll find the subject quite fascinating. Remember, BTW, Tachyons as hypothetical as they maybe, do NOT violate causality (so good news - Granny Red is forever SAFE from your "Tachyonic Intentions" LOL).

P.S. Will be missing you guys, but gravity [ness's Fifth Mistress] is having a fit! (-:

Answer 8

Another great question. Great imagination. I'll have more to say, but your question deserves some thought.

If I understand the idea, our timelines are reduced to a single point, but with all the information intact- without any sequential understanding? no sense of causality? We would have no sense of agency.

I think we would be a painting. We could hope for some acrylics, but I think , it would be oil! Perhaps we could see ourselves as a painting within a painting.

I would like to be able to add more but my picture, near the top, shows me with a bad headache.

Answer 9

There is no past & future, as that is your mind's concept.Only present exists but unfortunately you are never in the presnt as your mind is always in thepast or in the future.The real space is the present & it lies in between the thoughts. Only through meditation we can feel the present.

Answer 10

Realistically and Conceptually, time and space are interdependent and inseparable.

So perhaps the equation should be -

Humanity (or Being) - Time & Space = ??????

PS: sorry ;-)

EDIT-----------------

And sorry but i must point out one little "thing" in this question. That is, there is a difference between the "actual existence of time" and "time as a concept".

Actual existence of time = Time that exists in the objective realm (or space) independent of our conception or interpretations of it.

Time as a concept = Our subjective perception, conception and/or interpretations of time.

They can be very different. The former is rigid whereas latter is "manipulable".