A question about (Christian) questions?

Question

I've seen two questions tonight to the effect of, "If God (apparently the Christian God; both askers seemed disinclined to be specific about this) were PROVEN to exist, would you admit that he's real/worship him/whatever"? And I've seen plenty of questions like this in the past too.

All right...if the existence of a god (whichever one you like) could be proven (inasmuch as anything can be proven in science)...say that he/she/it spelled out the phrase "Hey there earth!" in the sky with stars...why wouldn't we (atheists, agnostics) believe? It's the fact that he/she hasn't alread DONE so that makes us (or at least me) disinclined to believe.

So I guess my question is: do some Christians just think that atheists and agnostics feel the way we do because we're stubborn jerks who won't believe what's in front of our eyes? Because, to me...the main problem is that it ISN'T right in front of our eyes.

cadisney: Actually, I think that "anti-religious people" (and I do count myself as one of these) often have a bigger problem with religion than a chip on their shoulder. I don't know, personally, how many people in the history of humanity have died because of religion (religious wars, etc.), but I bet it's a lot, and I think it's horrendous.

Thank you. I know MY answer to my question. I was curious about other people's answer to it as well.

(The above comment was directed to Jesus M)

Mr. Knowitall: Good point and well said.

King James: Very true, but most Christians seem to see this sort of answer as a cop-out to their question. :)

person-whose-name-is-in-Greek: Thanks you. I hope I did not generalize in my question; I am aware that by no means are all Christians silly name-callers. But not all of them are as polite as you.

Answer 1

What they are basically saying is "I know there is absolutely no proof or even logical reasoning that supports god, BUT WHAT IF THERE WAS???"

They are just making themselves look desperate and stupid.

Answer 2

I saw that recent question and thought it was kind of odd because why wouldnt someone believe something right in front of their eyes if it was straight out proven. But then what is the definition of proven?


I get why people are atheists. I dont get why people are anti religion. I think most atheists are atheists because they just cant believe in something like a God when there is no real proof of a God and every historical references to religion and God after time tends to sound a little antiquated and primitive.
I think most anti religion atheists have just had some bad experiences with some religious people or a religion and have a chip on their shoulder.



I think actually very few have died specifically due to religion that wouldnt have died had religion never existed. Every war and persecution committed by a group or a nation had everything to do with greed and power and very little to do with religion. Had religion never existed, all the wars still would have occured, imo. They just would have been fought under a diff banner.
People always like to say how many bad things were done by religious people, but then they also discount all the good, too. Religion has done a lot to help humanity as well.
Non christian gvts, like communism, that specifically made sure religion was ousted from the country, have killed far far more people in the history of the world then so called religious wars and persecution.

Answer 3

I tend to think that atheists are atheists because they are a group of people who feel they somehow "deserve" proof or are entitled to answers; which defeats the need for faith, which is the basis of any spirituality (not religion).

But spirituality, of any sort, really can't offer that in a material sort of way that atheists want. By the very nature of spirituality, it's not something that can be pointed to as "here it is."

As much as it is hard for an atheist to truly believe Christians believe, it is hard for a Christian to believe that an atheist doesn't believe. Some Christians think atheists are just angry and some atheists think Christians are just faking it. I don't think there will ever be a universal understanding of each group.

It has been my experience that there are individual Christians who can let atheists be atheists, but rarely has it been my experience that atheists can let Christians be Christians.

But it stands to reason that it would be that way because the very core of a Christian is God and the very core of an atheist is the lack of God. It's hard for each group to reconcile. Course it hasn't helped that the majority of Christians are judgmental toward atheists and it doesn't help that the majority of atheists treat Christians with disdain.

It's really no different than gay/straight, race/race, republican/democrat, etc. One group simply can't relate to the other. Again I think it's about the individual.

I am a Christian, have been for 23 years. Two close friends are atheist, the rare breed that don't seem angry all the time. Great people with a good moral code. I am not one that believes morality only comes from Christianity.

Answer 4

I think that question is usually in response to "If there were proof that God doesn't exist, would you continue to believe, worship, etc."

The point being made, on both sides, is that people really do tend to believe what is most comfortable for them despite the "facts" presented.

The problem is, this, and the converse question, are both philosophical questions, not questions of science. Science will most likely never be able to prove or disprove the existence of God. So, the odds of a concrete answer either way are statistically nil. In essence, both questions are just mental exercises.

Answer 5

I sometimes tell my Christian friends that the difference beween us is not so much -what- we believe but -how-.

Suppose there was no Bible. Suppose we only had our own senses and intelligence to go on. A lot of people would like to believe there was a God, and might pray to him and ask him for stuff, and might try to be good if they believed he wanted them to. Nothing wrong with that, of course. But nobody would be able to say 'What you believe is WRONG! What -I- believe is the only real truth. And you are going to be punished for what YOU believe!' Nobody would be able to think badly of someone for believing something different. Everyone would have to admit that they didn't really know, that they believed simply what seemed reasonable to them and what made them feel good, what got them through the night.

That's how -I- believe. I don't listen to people tell me I have to believe this thing or that thing, and I don't expect to convince anyone myself. I just believe what seems reasonable to me, and I expect others to do the same.

I've read a lot for many years about what others think, and I have adopted some of their ideas and rejected others. And after all, doesn't Paul (no less!) tell us to do that? To test everything and hold fast to that which is good?

If God was PROVEN to me, then it wouldn't be belief, now would it? It would be -science-.

Answer 6

Simply, some people live by faith and others by sight. Ultimately you cannot judge a person's character because they do not believe in the same as you. There isn't a right or wrong to this argument, simply a choice of perception. If you need concrete evidence, so be it. If you need simply faith and hope, then so be it. Ultimate we all have the freedom to choose our experience with or without the experience or notion of God. To each, his own path, will he/she create.

Answer 7

It is by Faith, and has to do with spiritual blindness and closing The Lord out, When we have a little, God will show us the rest, God has been working in my life, and I know, I pray that others will come to accept this, there is no gain in my telling you this, I already have my salvation, why do you think we tell you this, think about that for a moment?
Because it is the truth, and you have a right to know.

Answer 8

In my experience, a lot of Christians (not all) have this need to "save everyone's soul"... I am a Pagan and I get the same thing all the time (though I tend to get blamed for being a "devil worshiper" when I don't believe in a devil)...

I don't know when people are going to get it... what one believes or doesn't believe (in terms of religion) IS NOBODY'S BUSINESS BUT THEIR OWN...

religion pushers, to me are the same as drug pushers... except that drug pushers will leave you be after you say no...

Answer 9

Well stated and,yes, that is what they think. The think that miracles should be enough for you to slap yourself on the forehead in an "I could of had a V8" gesture and say: "What an idiot I have been for not realizing that 2 fish could not feed a thousand people without divine intervention."

Answer 10

See I believe that it is right in front of your eyes. You simply choose not to believe. Or you have not allowed your self to ask the right questions.

I would not go calling you names like "stubborn jerk", I don't know you.

I believe I have a reasonable faith and I would try to answer any of your questions if you had them.

Answer 11

Its not "in front of your eyes" that counts, for as Descartes says, our senses can deceive us, and remember that God does not deceive.

God cannot be grasped in the intellect, for he is infinite while our mind posits limitations and capsulizes conceptions and etc.

Only by the heart, the seat of the spirit can one come to know God. It is by faith rather than reason that he helps us.