How secure is this "eternal security", anyway?

Question

I just answered a hypothetical question about what would happen to a "saved" person who died in the act of adultery before having the opportunity to confess and repent of the sin.

One of the answers, predictably, was "A saved person would never commit adultery." I've heard this before, and it genuinely puzzles me. Does being "saved" mean someone can never give in to any temptation to sin for the rest of his/her life -- and if they do, they weren't really "saved" in the first place?

How on earth do you tell, then? Doesn't anyone ever question their own sincerity at some low point after making that decision to accept Christ? Is that why the already "saved" occasionally walk down the aisle again to reiterate their commitment? Just to make sure?

If that one act of accepting Christ makes you eternally secure no matter what, then what's with the "backsliding" and the "his conversion wasn't genuine" Monday-morning quarterbacking? You're either secure, or you aren't. Thoughts?

LOL ... Father K, I wouldn't know cribbage if you served it for dinner, but I'll take you up on that reserved seat and perhaps you can teach me to play.

Anon, I never saw your blog, but it's quite likely I would have ended up Lutheran had I not married a Catholic. Unsatisfactory answers to this very question, in light of the whole of Scripture, led to my eventual departure from fundamentalism.

I am going to have one tough time choosing a best answer here -- but allowing it to go to vote wouldn't do right by these good answers, either. So I'll extend this for a while, to think it over.

Answer 1

Born-Again Catholic, are you sure you didn't used to read my old defunct blog that I maintained while I was converting to Lutheranism? So many of your questions are exactly the sort of stuff I was posting there. lol

Well, the answer is that these churches don't actually practice a belief in eternal security--it's only a stated belief, and it's really just a smokescreen.

Let's take a look at the Office of the Keys for a moment: What is it, really? It is the Church's authority to forgive sin, yes. It may also be understood as the pastoral role of proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus, which is the forgiveness of sins. For the sake of this discussion I'll leave aside the issue of apostolic succession, and say that in this sense the Office of the Keys is exercised in every legitimate Protestant church.

Even in churches that teach eternal security, many Christians come forward frequently because they know they need forgiveness (they're hungry for Jesus in the Eucharist too, but that's not what this is specifically about). In coming forward, they are demonstrating their repentance, and normally the pastor will proclaim that their sins are forgiven (if he doesn't, he's being negligent--this is where a formal liturgy would help). But there's a catch.

Eternal security, technically, denies the need for the Christian to ever come forward again. I think if you could really look inside the heart of any genuine Christian, you'd find that somewhere deep down he knows this is not true; and so many Christians act upon this by responding to their church's altar call frequently. Every time they do so, they receive absolution; but the doctrine of eternal security lays a guilt trip on them for having needed it. So ironically, eternal security does not bring the assurance it claims; it only takes the joy out of absolution.

I once visited a heterodox church that went under the Lutheran label, where they had replaced the confession of sin in their Divine Service with a statement that was basically an apology to God for feeling like they still needed to repent for anything. I have never seen the poisonous effect of eternal security so vividly demonstrated.

Answer 2

You have to realize that salvation is both an event and a process- for by the decision to follow Jesus, we are His forever; yet it is only through daily leaning on Him for guidance in life do we become like Him.
Look at it like this. It is a spiritual birth. John Chapter 3:3-6
A new born does not know how to walk, talk, or behave as an adult. Likewise, a new Christian does not live the Christian life as well as a mature Christian. It requires a growth process.
As far as temptation goes, Christians are as vulnerable to it as anyone; however when we do wrong, we quickly repent. It hurts the heart of a Christian to to wrong. And if it doesn't, there is a real problem. With maturity, comes less frequent temptation, and fewer occasions to sin.
There is no "easy believism" or the idea that Jesus died for my sins so my lifestyle doesn't matter. No. Galatians Chapter six is clear that our lifestyle as Christians is crucial. For God will not be mocked. We reap what we sow. Also, James writes that faith without works is dead, it is not a living faith. And, while we are not saved by good works, we see clearly in Ephesians Chapter two that we were created to do good works. Therefore, I say that the Scripture shows that a processing Christian that lifes a life that does not show the love of God through the life they live, isn't the real deal.
1 Corinthians 13 : 4-8 reveals the very definition of love. Anyone claiming Christ that doesn't measure up to that standard isn't real.

Answer 3

No organization can guarantee exemption from the eternal torment of hell, but some are more helpful than others in avoiding that torment. The worst offenders are denominations that deny that there is a hell, flatly contradicting Jesus' teachings (see link). Pretty odd when Christians think they know better than Jesus. Those who think they are in no danger will probably do nothing to avoid the real danger. David represents a group that thinks we can avoid hell by the purely mental action of faith. Faith is a virtue and a requirement for Christians, but believing and teaching faith alone rules out all the other requirements, including having righteousness that exceeds that of the Pharisees and carrying out the self-sacrificial charitable work exemplified by the good Samaritan. The best help comes from churches that accurately proclaim Jesus' teachings about hell and about salvation, and that provide a means to God's grace through the sacraments. These would include the Catholic and Orthodox churches. Cheers, Bruce

Answer 4

Can a Believer "Lose" His Salvation?

Or Stated More Accurately, Can He Forfeit It?




"Has God indeed said...Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away."? (Luke 8:13)

the scripture clearly teaches BOTH the sovereignty of God AND the free will of men. To deny this is irrational, and must be caused by something other than reason based on scriptural precepts.

The scriptural position is that a person who is saved can forfeit that salvation. The bible teaches those at highest risk of forfeiting their salvation are those who are newly saved, and those who continue on in known disobedience, after being born again.

The elect are those whom God chose, whom God foresaw would both trust in His Son AND who would endure or persevere in the faith given them until the end of their physical life, or the return of Jesus.

Those whose hearts are seeking the Lord with all that is in them, should have no concern about "losing" their salvation. Nor should they have any concern about forfeiting their salvation.

Salvation cannot be lost, but it can be forfeited - this is the nature of covenants in the bible. The bible no where guarantee's someone that salvation once received cannot be turned away from or forfeited by the individual that possesses it.

Receiving salvation involves man's will, and not works. Forfeiting salvation involves man's will, and not works. In the same way the Lord did not force His salvation on anyone, He neither forces anyone to remain in the covenant.

Answer 5

Some might think that a truly saved person would never commit adultery -- but by logical extension, they would have to say that a truly saved person would never commit ANY sin. That, of course, is something we know that's impossible.

The person who wrote the answer might think that a saved person would never commit a serious sin -- but St. Paul didn't think so.

He allowed for the possibility, and even issued strict warnings about it: "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Romans 11:22).

This verse (there are many others like it, too) is not exactly the language of self-assurance of guaranteed salvation.

Paul wrote this verse to a group of people who were already "saved" -- and he was clearly warning them of the danger (and the real possibility) of becoming "unsaved."

..

Answer 6

That is that "Once saved always saved" propaganda. It is unbiblical. And also a lie. The Fundies say that once your saved you no longer sin, that is a lie as we can see the truth of the fundies sin on this board. Accepting Christ does not mean we will not sin again. We will always sin because there are no perfect people on this earth. And to make that statement that one was never really saved to begin with is another lie and propaganda. I will continue to believe the bible and the churchs interpretation and not the fundies.The fundies interpretation of the bible could make someone wind up in the lake of fire!!

As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

Answer 7

Well, even saved people can sin, as we are all sinners. The important thing to remember is if a Christian commits adultery, they can go to Jesus for forgiveness if they are truly sincere, He will forgive them and remember their sin no more.

Only you know in your heart if you were truly saved, that is between you and the Lord. It never hurts to walk the aisle if you have something on your heart you need to discuss with God.

To answer your question, if a saved person dies while committing adultery, they will still go to Heaven.

Answer 8

Haha! I peeked at my email at work and saw the words secure/security and thought maybe it was a question about IT! Now how focused on work is that?

But seriously, and now that I'm home where I can think less technically --

"Saved" people do sinful things sometimes. But remember all our sins have been forgiven at the death and resurrection of Jesus - even before they are committed.

I'm mulling over similar things too and I'm at this point so far -
There are
-people who do not know God either by existance or experience.
-people who know God existentially but not experientially
-people who know God and have a relationship with God

Your questions are focused mostly on people who know God and have a relationship with God...

When a person has a relationship with God, there are two ways for that person to damage the relationship and they are
1- To sin against another person
2- To sin against their relationship with God.

Sins against other people degrade those people and the sinner, making the lives impacted less in some manner than God intended them to be.

Sinning against one's relationship with God is the equivalent of telling God to His face that you don't want to know Him any more ever and you don't want to be with Him any more ever. This is how a person who is saved could ever go from the security of being saved to the state of being damned.

My thoughts only. Not sure what official Roman Catholic opinion would be of this just as I'm not sure what my opinion is of official Roman Catholic position on the subject. On this point, I honestly can't quite comprehend what the Vatican has ever said about it. :)

Answer 9

The only security is staying in the state of grace
and living in moral sin is incompatible with the state of grace.
OSAS "eternal security' is the fundamentalists' equivalent of buying indulgences from Tetzel and planning on doing mortal sins and "cashing in the indulgence 'later,which cannot work since that is the sin of presumption.

There is abig difference between relying on God and presuming that I cannot throw away my salvation by expelling Jesus and His Grace from my life.

Free will and OSAS are incompatible
which is why one really must accept all the Calvinst 5 points and not just the last to be consistent with 'eternal security'

In Eternity those who live this life in grace will have Security ,but in this life living in and by grace is the only security in Christ,Who never promised that one could sin gravely and stay in grace while unrepentant.

Answer 10

A true Christian knows that he is still a sinner, and acknowledges that it's certain that he will fall from grace many times. What matters then is how he (or she) handles the situation. If he is genuinely repentant, then God will forgive. It's the ones who deliberately practice what they know to be wrong that have reason to feel insecure. The writer of the book of Hebrews makes this abundantly clear, in Chapter 6:4-6

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[b]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

In other words, those who profess to be Christian but deny Christ by their actions are by no means secure, just the opposite.