Is there any listing (even one) of the twelve tribes of literal Israel which uses the listing given at Revelation 7:5-8?
No.
Revelation's listing is given thusly:
...(Revelation 7:5-8) 'Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin'
Revelation's listing CONTRASTS with the first listing of the twelve tribes of literal Israel. That was given by the patriarch Israel (Jacob) himself, using the names of his twelve sons:
...(Genesis 49:3-28) Reuben...5 Simeon and Levi...8 ...Judah...13 Zebulun...14 Issachar...16 Dan...19 As for Gad...20 Out of Asher... 21 Naphtali...22 ...Joseph... 27 Benjamin...28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel
Revelation's listing also CONTRASTS with the tribes as they were established in the Promised Land. For reasons explained during the lifetimes of Israel's sons (the original tribal heads), the tribe of Joseph was given the "double portion" and each of Joseph's sons was elevated to become a full tribe (see Genesis 48:1-6 and 1 Chronicles 5:1,2), since Levi would concentrate on priestly duties. At that, the twelve tribes of literal Israel were listed thusly:
...(Numbers 1:4-15) One man to a tribe... 5 ...Of Reuben...6 of Simeon...7 of Judah...8 of Issachar...9 of Zebulun...10 ...of Ephraim...of Manasseh...11 of Benjamin...12 of Dan...13 of Asher...14 of Gad...15 of Naphtali
The bible offers no explanation why the literal tribal names would ever be changed again, prior to the writing or fulfillment of Revelation. Frankly, there is no reason or purpose behind doing so, for the tribal identities of all Jews were lost when Jerusalem's temple was destroyed (that destruction was decades BEFORE the penning of Revelation). No Jew today has any idea what his tribal heritage might be, and even the Jews in the apostle John's day could not prove their specific genealogy.
Frankly, the listing at Revelation chapter 7 seems to have been selected specifically to indicate that this is NOT literal Israel !
Note that the tribe of Dan is NEVER excluded from any other tribal listing, and note that it is inconsistent for Revelation to list Manasseh AND Joseph (Joseph was Manasseh's father, while Ephraim was Manasseh's brother).
Does the bible ever teach that the term "Israel" can refer to Christians rather than Jews? Yes, many times. The bible clearly teaches that Christianity would replace Judaism as the approved form of worship, and those initial Christians would all be part of a new Christian entity called "the Israel of God".
...(Galatians 6:15-16) For neither is circumcision [that is, the former requirements of Judaism] anything nor is uncircumcision, but a new creation is something. And all those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct, upon them be peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God.
...(Romans 9:6-26) It is not as though the word of God had failed [in that Judaism became invalid]. For not all who spring from [literal] Israel are really “Israel” ...8 That is, the children in the flesh [literal descendants of Jacob/Israel] are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the seed. ...22 If, now, God, although having the will to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known...called not only from among Jews but also from among nations, what of it? 25 It is as [God] says also in Hosea: “Those not [Jewish] people I will call ‘my people,’
So does the bible ever refer to "the twelve tribes" when the writer seems quite plainly to be actually referring to the Christian congregation? Yes.
...(James 1:1-2;2:1) James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes that are scattered about: Greetings! Consider it all joy, my brothers...My brothers, you are not holding the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, our glory, with acts of favoritism, are you?
There can be sincere disagreement among Christians about whether the number "144,000" is literal or not, but it seems much less debatable about whether the Christian Scriptures (such as Revelation 7:4) repeatedly discuss literal Israel or instead the Christian "Israel of God" (that is, spiritual Israel).
Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/20041001/article_01.htm
2007-11-08 09:29:25
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answer #1
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answered by achtung_heiss 7
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In Revelation 14:1-4, the 144,000 described as standing with the Lamb on Mount Zion are said to have been "bought from the earth. These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins." These are shown as having a more intimate relationship with the Lamb than any others do, being the only ones to master the "new song." (Re 14:1-4)
This would indicate that they make up the "bride" of the Lamb. (Re 21:9) They are spiritual persons, as revealed by the fact that they stand on the heavenly Mount Zion with the Lamb. Therefore their 'not defiling themselves with women' and their being "virgins" would not mean that none of these 144,000 persons had ever been married, for the Scriptures do not forbid persons on earth who are to be joint heirs with Christ to marry. (1Ti 3:2; 4:1, 3)
Neither would it imply that all the 144,000 were men, for "there is neither male nor female" as far as the spiritual relationship of Christ's joint heirs is concerned. (Ga 3:28)
The "women" therefore must be symbolic women, doubtless religious organizations such as Babylon the Great and her 'daughters,' false religious organizations, the joining of and participation in which would prevent one from being spotless. (Re 17:5)
This symbolic description harmonizes with the requirement in the Law that the high priest of Israel take only a virgin for his wife, for Jesus Christ is Jehovah's great High Priest.-Le 21:10, 14; 2Co 11:2; Heb 7:26.
The Bible states that only a limited number of faithful Christians-namely, 144,000 of them-are raised as spirit creatures to live in heaven. Why are they given this wonderful reward?
Because they make up the group that John saw in a vision who "came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years." (Revelation 14:1, 3; 20:4-6) Compared with the billions on earth, the 144,000 truly are a "little flock." (Luke 12:32)
Moreover, having experienced the problems common to humankind, like Jesus they will be able to "sympathize with our weaknesses" as they supervise the rehabilitation of mankind and of the earth.-Hebrews 4:15.
2007-11-12 04:14:46
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answer #2
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answered by keiichi 6
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its funny how every body gangs up on jws in the bible it says that the wintnesses will be hated and put through trubulation by the world who are the most hated religon on this earth (jws?) the bible say preach the good news of the (paridis earth) who are the people being hated who who are the people preaching the good news door to door ministry i promise that when you start seeing us on the news your going to want to take back everything you said about us an when all the peace comes and everything calms down and you think its world peace boom in the twinkling of an eye before you even no whats happening it will be over an all the wicked will be destroyed
2007-11-12 05:47:04
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answer #3
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answered by Big Dawg J 1
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They are the ones that aren't defiled by false religion ( they are "virgins") They are not really of the tribes of Israel, They are the Israel of God, The nation of Irael spoken of in Revelation. Thay will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus, while the rest of us live on paradise earth.
To how many does the Bible hold out hope of heavenly life?
Luke 12:32: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.”
Rev. 14:1-3: “I saw, and, look! the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion [in heaven; see Hebrews 12:22-24], and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. . . . And they are singing as if a new song . . . and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.”
Are the 144,000 only natural Jews?
Rev. 7:4-8: “I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: . . . Judah . . . Reuben . . . Gad . . . Asher . . . Naphtali . . . Manasseh . . . Simeon . . . Levi . . . Issachar . . . Zebulun . . . Joseph . . . Benjamin.” (These cannot be the tribes of natural Israel because there never was a tribe of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the 12 tribes. See Numbers 1:4-16.)
Rom. 2:28, 29: “He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code.”
Gal. 3:26-29: “You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. . . . There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.”
Is the number 144,000 merely symbolic?
The answer is indicated by the fact that, after mention of the definite number 144,000, Revelation 7:9 refers to “a great crowd, which no man was able to number.” If the number 144,000 were not literal it would lack meaning as a contrast to the “great crowd.” Viewing the number as literal agrees with Jesus’ statement at Matthew 22:14 regarding the Kingdom of the heavens: “There are many invited, but few chosen.”
2007-11-08 08:13:08
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answer #4
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answered by Anonymous
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12,000 individuals from 12 tribes = 144,000 total individuals.
(Revelation 1:1) 1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,
Signs do not have to be literal, Or are you really looking for locust with a man's face, women's hair and teeth like lions?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and [his] circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God.
The Christian Congregation are the true Jews today.
How are they virgins?
They avoid fornication with false religion, unlike the harlot, Babylon the Great.
What do they do in heaven? They are kings and priest with Christ and they rule over the remaining ones on the earth.
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2007-11-08 09:16:10
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answer #5
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answered by TeeM 7
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The 144,000 is composed of spiritual Jews
They have to be spiritual Israelites if they are to stand with the Lamb Jesus Christ on the heavenly Mount Zion. (Revelation 14:1-3; Hebrews 12:22
13 In order for 144,000 persons “out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation” to be rated as “Israelites” they would have to be such in a figurative sense, that is, be inwardly Israelites. As Romans 2:29 reminds us: “He is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit.”
The natural Jews as well as the non-Jews who become the dedicated, baptized disciples of Christ and whom God PICKS OUT to share with Christ in world rule God begets with his spirit. All such become spiritual Israelites.
144,000 ‘not defiled with women.’ In Revelation 14:1-4, the 144,000 described as standing with the Lamb on Mount Zion are said to have been “bought from the earth. These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins.” These are shown as having a more intimate relationship with the Lamb than any others do, being the only ones to master the “new song.” (Re 14:1-4) This would indicate that they make up the “bride” of the Lamb. (Re 21:9) They are spiritual persons, as revealed by the fact that they stand on the heavenly Mount Zion with the Lamb. Therefore their ‘not defiling themselves with women’ and their being “virgins” would not mean that none of these 144,000 persons had ever been married, for the Scriptures do not forbid persons on earth who are to be joint heirs with Christ to marry. (1Ti 3:2; 4:1, 3) Neither would it imply that all the 144,000 were men, for “there is neither male nor female” as far as the spiritual relationship of Christ’s joint heirs is concerned. (Ga 3:28) The “women” therefore must be symbolic women, doubtless religious organizations such as Babylon the Great and her ‘daughters,’ false religious organizations, the joining of and participation in which would prevent one from being spotless. (Re 17:5) This symbolic description harmonizes with the requirement in the Law that the high priest of Israel take only a virgin for his wife, for Jesus Christ is Jehovah’s great High Priest.—Le 21:10, 14; 2Co 11:2; Heb 7:26.
Luke 18:10 states “Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector”
In this illustration, is the number Two literal or figurative, is the Pharisee only applied to Jews? And is the praying figurative or literal?
In just one sentence, you can see that some words are meant to be literal, some are meant to figurative.
Rev 6:10-11 states “. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow SLAVES and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.”
These SLAVES of God, where later sealed in their foreheads in Rev 7:3 “3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the SLAVES of our God in their foreheads.””
Rev 7:4 states that these slaves of God number 144,000.
If the prophecy in Rev 6:10 happened in the earlier centuries, then how come the “judgment” of their blood upon those who dwell on the earth has not arrived yet? The judgment is still in the future.
That 144,000 is being CONTRASTED to a huge number, that no man was able to number, means that 144,000 is a small number and literal. Rev 7:9
2 Cor 5:10 talks about the people who will be judged.
10 For we must all be made manifest before the judgment seat of the Christ, that each one may get his award for the things done through the body, according to the things he has practiced, whether it is good or vile.
The 144.000 will be kings with Jesus and part of the FIRST resurrection and are given favor in the judgment itself.
Rev 5:10 states “ and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
Dan 7:22 states “22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.”
Rev 20:5 states “This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.”
2007-11-09 02:20:34
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answer #6
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answered by trustdell1 3
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Harpazo = Rapture
END-TIME BIBLE PROPHECY
The Messiah Lord Jesus said BIRTH PANGS would signal the time of the end (Matthew 24:8). There are NINE birth pangs, they are all PRE-TRIBULATIONAL and the 1st three already occurred.
The first birth pang was worldwide conflict coupled with famines and earthquakes (Matthew 24:7-8). Worldwide conflict was fulfilled in 1914-1918, major famines happened in 1918-1921 and most of the world’s major earthquakes began to occur since 1900.
The second birth pang was the restoration of a Jewish State (Ezekiel 20:33-38; Ezekiel 22:17-22; Ezekiel 36:22-24; Zephaniah 2:1-2). This was fulfilled in 1948.
The third birth pang was Jewish control of the Old City of Jerusalem (Revelation 11:1-2). For the third Jewish Temple (Tribulation Temple) to be rebuilt, Jerusalem needs to be under Jewish control and this was accomplished in the Six Day War in 1967.
The fourth birth pang will be the Ezekiel 38 war. Russia, allied states of Iran, Ethiopia, Somalia, Germany and Armenia will invade Israel. God will miraculously destroy the invading army by earthquake, civil war among the invading soldiers, pestilence, blood, flood, hailstones, fire and brimstone. This will bring a revival in Israel where many Jews will turn to the Lord, and Israel will spend 7 years and 7 months burying the bodies and burning for fuel the military equipment left behind (Ezekiel 39:9-16).
The 5th birth pang will be the development of a one world government (Daniel 7:23-24).
The 6th birth pang will be the splitting of the one world government into 10 kingdoms and this Ten Kingdom Stage will continue until mid-Tribulation (Daniel 7:24).
The 7th birth pang will be the revelation of the Antichrist (II Thessalonians 2:1-3; Daniel 7:24).
The 8th birth pang will be a period of peace and false security that will be shattered by the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3).
The 9th and final birth pang before the Tribulation is the signing of the 7-year covenant between Israel and the Antichrist. THIS EVENT IS WHAT BEGINS THE (7-year) TRIBULATION - NOT THE RAPTURE!
The Rapture of the Church (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) is also a pre-tribulational event (Luke 21:34-37; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10; Revelation 3:10; Revelation 19:6-8). The fact that the Church is not mentioned in any of the Tribulation Scriptures proves the Rapture is pre-tribulational. All raptured Christians will receive glorified bodies (Romans 8:22-23; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54)) and it can happen at any second.
THE FIRST HALF OF THE TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES IN REVELATION 6-9 AND 17)
The Ministry of 144,000 sealed Jewish believers will bring many throughout the world to accept Christ.
There will be a powerful Ministry of Two Witnesses who will also be anointed Jewish believers.
A one world religious system (Babylon the Harlot) will rule. Under this one world religious system, many who are saved during the Tribulation will suffer persecution and death.
The Political system of the 10 kings of the one world government will continue.
During the first half of the Tribulation there will also be war, worldwide famine, death (1/4 of the world’s population will die), a huge earthquake, a blackout and a meteor shower. 1/3 of earth’s dry surface will be destroyed, 1/3 sea life and salt water will be destroyed, a fallen angel called Wormwood will make 1/3 of earth’s fresh water bitter, 1/3 of earth’s natural light sources will be destroyed, there will be another blackout and demons in the form of “locust-scorpions” will come up out of the abyss led by Abaddon their king and they will inflict harm and pain for five months upon those who are not sealed by God (unbelievers). Another demonic invasion will occur and the demons involved will be led by four fallen angels who will be released from the Euphrates River and this army will kill 1/3 of the earth’s population.
MID-TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES IN REVELATION 10-14 AND 17)
The Antichrist will war against the 10 kings, and during the war the Antichrist will be killed.
Satan will be cast out of the atmospheric heavens onto earth and will resurrect the Antichrist.
The Antichrist will kill 3 kings (the kings of Syria, Egypt and Mesopotamia) and the 7 other kings will submit to him.
The Antichrist will kill the Two Witnesses in Jerusalem and the wicked people will celebrate this event. Three and a half days afterwards, God will resurrect the Two Witnesses and take them up to Heaven and the people who celebrated will become terrified. The city of Jerusalem where the murder of the Two Witnesses occurred will then suffer an earthquake which will kill 7,000 people.
The False Prophet will receive from Satan the power to perform great miracles and will deceive many. The False Prophet will command all people to worship the Antichrist and have persons create an image to the Antichrist. The False Prophet will use his satanic powers to give it life and the ability to speak. The False Prophet will cause those who refuse to worship the Antichrist and the image to be killed.
The False Prophet will issue his own counterfeit seal known as the Mark of the Beast and it will be placed on all those who surrender to the Antichrist’s authority and accept him as god. Those who refuse to take this mark will not be able to buy or sell. Those who take this mark will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.
The Antichrist will break the seven-year covenant he made with Israel, cause the sacrifices to stop, sit in the Jewish Temple, declare to the world that he is really God and set up an idol called the Abomination of Desolation in the Temple (Daniel 9:27; Daniel 12:11; Matthew 24:15-16; 11Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 13:11-15).
Through the Antichrist and the False Prophet, Satan will attempt to destroy the Jews once and for all but he will fail because 1/3 of the Jews will succeed in fleeing into the wilderness. These Jews who escape will accept the Lord Jesus as their Saviour during the Tribulation (Zechariah 13:7-9) and while they are in hiding, God will miraculously provide for them (Zechariah 13:8-9; Isaiah 41:17-20). Divine intervention will also destroy the pursuing army.
THE SECOND HALF OF THE TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES FOUND IN REVELATION 15, 16, 18, 19, 20)
In the second half of the Tribulation, those with the Mark of the Beast will suffer skin sores, the remainder of sea water and fresh water will be destroyed, the sun will cause terrible burns and the wicked will blaspheme God. There will be yet another blackout and persons will suffer gnawing pains.
Babylon will be the center of world economy and political system but Babylon will be swiftly destroyed by fire and become uninhabitable for man.
The Antichrist will locate the Jews who sought refuge in the wilderness and surround them with his armies to wipe them out. The Lord Jesus will then descend from Heaven with His angels and Saints. He will come with great glory riding upon a horse and will destroy the Antichrist, the False Prophet and all of their armies. After this, a loud voice will cry out “It is done!” followed by the greatest earthquake in the earth’s history and hail weighing 120 pounds will fall.
At the end of the Tribulation, there will be another blackout, the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken (Matthew 24:29), the Antichrist and the False Prophet will be thrown into the eternal Lake of Fire and Satan will be cast into the Abyss and bound for 1,000 years.
THE MILLENNIUM
The Lord Jesus will reign over the entire earth during the Millennium. The Jewish and Gentile believers who survive the Tribulation will go on to populate the Millennium. Believers who died before and during the Tribulation and believers who were raptured will be present on earth during the Millennium and because they will have glorified bodies they will not reproduce. All believers will be given special tasks by the Lord Jesus (Revelation 20:4-6). There will be no wars (Isaiah 2:2-4), animals will return to the Edenic state and become vegetarians (Isaiah 11:6-9), people will not labour in vain but eat what they plant and inhabit what they build, there will be renovations in the heavens and earth and there will be righteous and unrighteous children born during the Millennium (Isaiah 65:17-25).
At the end of the Millennium, Satan will be loosed from the Abyss and will deceive and gather the unrighteous for a war against the righteous. This will be his final attempt to destroy the righteous and when the unrighteous of the Millennium surround the good people, God will send fire down from Heaven which will suddenly and massively annihilate all of the wicked people. Satan will then be cast into the Lake of Fire where he will remain in torment for eternity (Revelation 20:7-10).
THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT
The Great White Throne Judgment will be the next main event. The old heavens and earth will be done away with and all will stand before God’s throne to be judged (Revelation 20:11-12). Those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire which will be their final and eternal abode (Revelation 20:14-15).
THE ETERNAL ORDER (REVELATION 21 AND 22)
Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will enjoy paradise with God forever. The heavens and earth will be made new and the New Jerusalem will come down upon the earth making the earth like Heaven. All curses from the fall will be removed and the earth will be inhabited by the Triune God (The Father, Son and Holy Spirit), all angels and all of the righteous. The seas, moon, night and sun will be done away with and the glory of God will illuminate the earth. The River of Life will flow from God’s throne, the Tree of Life will bear health-giving fruits and leaves and the name of Jesus will be on the foreheads of all of the righteous.
God’s Plan of Salvation for Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZkDk1GZ7do
2015-03-27 06:10:53
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answer #7
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answered by Anonymous
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Look, the 144,000 are going to be Jews raised up in the last days to witness for Christ. It's their second chance at this. Not trying to be rude, but the Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong about this (and a lot of other things).
And don't try to argue with them, they have their own Bible and many of the things you will be looking for have neatly been removed.
2007-11-08 08:02:01
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answer #8
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answered by pinkstealth 6
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Aside from the:
12,000 from the tribe of Judah,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin,
Revelation speaks of others who are given the chance of salvation:
Rev 14:
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
[7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
It seems the 144,000 are not the only ones who will be "saved".
2007-11-08 08:09:37
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answer #9
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answered by Anonymous
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not being a Jehovah's Witness, i am not sure how they came to that conclusion. But I have always understood the 144 to be the tribes of Israel, the Jewish faith. but only certain ones of them, such as the teachers and leaders.
being after the time of the hardening of the hearts and time of tribulation, these are the ones left who believed in God, but were recent converts to Jesus who they were still waiting for.
2007-11-08 08:02:25
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answer #10
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answered by texas troll 2
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