If you are not supposed to bow down to graven images or worship any other?

Question

Why do people pray to the Virgin Mary and the other Patron Saints?

Why if God is the only one who can grant forgivness, does a man tell you to say 3 Hail Mary's and you will be forgiven your sins?

Tango: no I wasn't aware because I don't spend all my time debating theology with the rest of you fanatics.

As far as the kid comment, I am a 38 year old father who was unable to answer my kids question so I came on here to see what you fanatics thought so I could give them info based on others beliefs and not just make them accept what I think.

I think you are all a bunch of fools for believeing this tripe but it is not my place to brainwah my children like you Christians do. They should have all information possible to make their own informed decisions on what they believe.

Fortunatly I see not all people on here are as big of pricks as you are.

So Tango, thanks for your caring Christian answer, you were a great deal of help. Now I remember why I don't come on this religious site very often.

Answer 1

The people who do this (mostly the Catholics) obey man and the traditions of their church rather than obey God. They believe whatever the pope and the councils of the church have told them, not the Word of God. Many of them do not even know that these things are not in the bible. They are not born again, they are just religious people doing religious things, trying to work their way to God. They are religious but lost and do not even understand that they blaspheme God and are idol worshipers.

Answer 2

I'm Lutheran, we still have statues, crucifixes, icons, symbols, vestments, altar, candles, and occasionally incense. We don't however pray to the Saints, rather we look to them as examples of Christian virtue, and inspiration.

If we have a photo of our loved ones, we do not love the photo, we love those who are depicted in it.

Father K is right, these are all windows to the spiritual realm of God.

Also, in accord with our Lord's command, we have Confession and Absolution; both corporate; at the beginning of service, and private; when desired. in John 20:23 Jesus says: "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Absolution from a Pastor, or any Christian that you sincerely confess to is just
as valid as if it were pronounced by Christ himself, because he IS pronouncing it through his body, the Church.

Your friend in Christ,

Mark.

Answer 3

The commandment about “graven images” is one of the most misunderstood scriptures. Consider Exodus 25: 18-19: “And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends.” Here, God is commanding that images be made!

So is God contradicting himself? First he say don’t make a graven image, and then he orders graven images to be made?

No, he is not contradicting himself. The problem is that folks have misinterpreted the words “graven image.”

According to Strong’s Concordance, the original Hebrew words that were translated into “graven image” referred to idols (Here is the concordance link: http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=06459 ). Of course, we know that an idol is a false god, or something that you place above God. Since the Cheribum are not false Gods, there is no contradiction.

Therefore, also, statues in Catholic Churches are not a violation of the commandment either. They are not idols, because they are not false Gods. My Church has a statue of an angel, just like God commanded the Israelites to make. We have a statue of Jesus, who is CERTAINLY not a false God. We have statues of saints because they are heroes of the faith, not gods - just like America has statues of its heroes – Washington, Lincoln, etc. – and those are not idols either.

Bottom line: The commandments forbid images of false idols or false gods, but there is nothing wrong with beautiful artwork of Jesus, Mary, or angels, whether that artwork be paintings, statues, or whatever.

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As for praying to the saints: Those in heaven pray with us and for us, as in the book of Revelation when John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8).

A prayer is a request. When we pray to Mary and the saints in heaven, we are asking them to pray for us, the same way non-Catholic Christians ask their friends or family to pray for them.

Question: When you ask your friends or family to pray for you, does that take away from Jesus or his role as mediator? Of course not, and neither does praying to our brother and sisters in heaven. Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16). The family of God transcends death: You are still a Christian even when you are in heaven, and you can still pray for your brothers and sisters when you are there.

Answer 4

why can we not pray to the vast cloud of witnessess already living in glory with Christ the king? After all, they already made it, they are there with God and the angels and those who loved God herioicly, I believe in the communion of saints, in this we can pray to anyone in heaven because of it says in Revelation, the saints pray before the throne of God with bowls of insence, who are they praying for? certainly not themselves they made it, they are praying for us, still striving for heaven, asking the intersession of those who have gone before us, and can certainly help us in our journey, esp. saints such as the little flower, who practiced doing small things for the love of Jesus. graven images are those likened to the golden calf, or the great phoenix, and other false images, but one of Jesus or mary, is certainly not a false image, and those the statue itself cannot hear us, the person it signifies certainly does hear us and promices to hear us. We worship only one God, not false or graven images.

Answer 5

good question here's another one for you believers

What about pledging allegiance to the American flag ?
that's replacing your god and worshiping America as your new God .
In doing so You have just changed your religion and the Constitution becomes your holy book and the president becomes your prophet or Lord

just so you know I'm not an american(plus I'M a pagan)

Answer 6

We pray in union with them not to them
Jesus acts through the Priest in the scarament

Answer 7

aren't you aware that this lame question has been asked many times over already? seriously, it's getting boring.

if you bow down to a king are you worshipping the king? use logic kid.

Answer 8

first our prayer to mary is found in the bible, secondly it is a request for her to pray for us, third jesus comands us to pray for the dead.

Answer 9

These would be questions to direct to Roman Catholics only.
Protestant Christians do not do such things .

Answer 10

Deut. 4:15 - from this verse, Protestants say that since we saw "no form" of the Lord, we should not make graven images of Him.

Deut. 4:16 - of course, in early history Israel was forbidden to make images of God because God didn't yet reveal himself visibly "in the form of any figure."

Deut. 4:17-19 - hence, had the Israelites depicted God not yet revealed, they might be tempted to worship Him in the form of a beast, bird, reptile or fish, which was a common error of the times.

Exodus 3:2-3; Dan 7:9; Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32; Acts 2:3- later on, however, we see that God did reveal himself in visible form (as a dove, fire, etc).

Deut. 5:8 - God's commandment "thou shall not make a graven image" is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be used in worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be worshiped.

Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31 - for example, God commands the making of the image of a golden cherubim. This heavenly image, of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image disposes their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God.

Num. 21:8-9 - God also commands the making of the bronze serpent. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind to the supernatural.

I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 - Solomon's temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship.

2 Kings 18:4 - it was only when the people began to worship the statue did they incur God's wrath, and the king destroyed it. The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images.

1 Chron. 28:18-19 - David gives Solomon the plan for the altar made of refined gold with a golden cherubim images. These images were used in the Jews' most solemn place of worship.

2 Chron. 3:7-14 - the house was lined with gold with elaborate cherubim carved in wood and overlaid with gold.

Ezek. 41:15 - Ezekiel describes graven images in the temple consisting of carved likenesses of cherubim. These are similar to the images of the angels and saints in many Catholic churches.

Col. 1:15 - the only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the "image" (Greek "eikon") of the invisible God.



Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to Forgive Sins!!

John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

John 20:22 - the Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.

John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Matt. 9:8 - this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those Protestants who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?

Matt. 9:6; Mark 2:10 - Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth.

Luke 5:24 - Luke also points out that Jesus' authority to forgive sins is as a man, not God. The Gospel writers record this to convince us that God has given this authority to men. This authority has been transferred from Christ to the apostles and their successors.

Matt. 18:18 - the apostles are given authority to bind and loose. The authority to bind and loose includes administering and removing the temporal penalties due to sin. The Jews understood this since the birth of the Church.

John 20:22-23; Matt. 18:18 - the power to remit/retain sin is also the power to remit/retain punishment due to sin. If Christ's ministers can forgive the eternal penalty of sin, they can certainly remit the temporal penalty of sin (which is called an "indulgence").

2 Cor. 2:10 - Paul forgives in the presence of Christ (some translations refer to the presences of Christ as "in persona Christi"). Some say that this may also be a reference to sins.

2 Cor. 5:18 - the ministry of reconciliation was given to the ambassadors of the Church. This ministry of reconciliation refers to the sacrament of reconciliation, also called the sacrament of confession or penance.

James 5:15-16 - in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man's authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

1 Tim. 2:5 - Christ is the only mediator, but He was free to decide how His mediation would be applied to us. The Lord chose to use priests of God to carry out His work of forgiveness.

Lev. 5:4-6; 19:21-22 - even under the Old Covenant, God used priests to forgive and atone for the sins of others.