If god exists, then how can there be free will?

Question

God knows the future... he is all knowing... if he created the world in the way he saw fit, then everything that happens was meant to happen and every one of his creations are created with their own innate behavior - their whole lives and the decisions they make in them would then be predetermined by god -- saying god is powerless to contend with our free will to "turn away from him" and go to hell... makes no sense so either: God is Cruel... God is not All powerful... or God does not exist.

I would like to hear a counter argument... theologists... fingers poised on your keyboards: GO!

If God is all powerful, then he must have manufactured the universe in a way where everything will follow his will... if things do not obey the will of God, then god is not all-powerful.

there is a diffrence between an eternal hell and begin grounded by your parents...

and parents are not ALL powerful.

Answer 1

there can not be free will if god knows everything... if god knows everything, then there is already a predetermined destiny for each and every person... so even though you think you have free will, god has already controlled every decision you will ever make.

either god does not exist or free will does not exist

Answer 2

Good points, but.......what then would be the point of life? To me, the meaning of life is to learn and grow. That simple. Think back to everything you've learned; how much would you learn and enjoy if everything was easy? Life is a B.....so? One cannot learn and grow personally without strife, imo.

Do I think that Christians know more than, say, Buddhists? Of course not. Actually, of all the religious texts I've read, the Taoists seem to have a better grip on personal growth and the art of living with others and nature more than any other religion/dogma/belief structure.

Just because I believe there is a God, doesn't mean I think he's so egotistical as to be a tyrant. Being omnipotent would mean that one would possess common sense and my common sense tells me that there would be absolutely NO point in humans, even reality, if we, as humans, wasn't given free will and choices. And I'm not even close to being omnipotent (too much partying in high school and college.) Without choices, we'd just be autonomous drones drifting about bumping into one another and have no consious thought.

I understand your point of view....I've been there. But, just because there's sooooooooooo many hypocritical and pushy believers, insert religion of choice here, doesn't mean all are that way. We're all humans and share this world for our short life. I say just enjoy life and don't let anyone of any type of influence keep you from learning and questioning.

Hope this helps and made sense!!

Answer 3

You know, I had someone tell me that A certain YouTuber was never a Christian to begin with. The YouTuber posted his Losing Faith video, talking about how such a devout Christian he was, and one day, he started to question his faith. Years later, and past a very difficult time (dropping faith is never easy for those that are deeply religious), he's a full grown fighting atheist. One of his commentors, as expected, committed the NTS fallacy. However, when I pointed it out, he said this YouTuber was *never* a Christian, and that atheists were never Christians, and ex-atheists were never Atheists, but always Christians, and everyone else (all the other religions) were "lost." I was amused by the comment, but more importantly, I found out he basically said we don't have a choice. By never being atheist, or never being Christian, we don't get the choice to be one or the other, God created us to either believe him, not believe him, or believe a different "false" religion. That would mean 1. Free Will didn't exist and 2. God is a bully, creating people just to punish them in Hell.

Answer 4

This question is very interesting but ultimately baseless.

Does man have free will? in Islam we believe that we have don't have free will nor are we subjected to carry acts. We have something in between in that we have the choice to do something and this is called Kasb or acquisition of something. So I might the ability and the time to do something but I am not going to do due to other factors. like i could eat this apple or i could eat another apple. I may not know what I am going to do but knows what we were going to do before we were created. Man and jinn - ghostlike creatures have this sort of limited free will.

Other inanimate things do not, a planet for instance like the sun. Like Angels as well and satan was not an angel he was Jinn and therefore he could disobey and when he did he thrown to earth in disgrace.

In the Islamic tradition God/Allah is not unjust and therefore he cannot compel someone to do something. Instead he gives us options and we do what we want, within the bounds of our own limited natures.

If you believe that God/Allah created the heavens and the earth and this is easy for you to understand. Then shouldn't be easier to understand that he controls things in a certain way. Its very subtle.

God/Allah is all powerful, he knows the past, the present and the future. He knows what our hearts are thinking now and that is easy for him.

Also know that when man tries to understand God, he will untlimatley fail. Its like asking a television to understand the man who created it. The television hasn't got a chance in that.

One of the creedal rules in Islam about God/Allah is that he is completely different from creation. God is not created, therefore cannot follow the natures of creation.

God is uncreated, he is not in need of anything and everything is in need of him.

Answer 5

God's plan may (or may not) include any given individual. That person does have the choice of ignoring (or being a part of) that plan. I made the conscious choice to be a part of it, personally. If I had not, someone else would have. Let me use this analogy: I became of age during the draft lottery. My number didn't come up, & I didn't enlist. If my number would've been drawn, I would've then had the choice of leaving the country, or allowing myself to be drafted. My absence from the military wasn't noticed in the grand scheme of things, because there were others from which to choose. By the same token, God's plan will come to pass regardless of an individual's choice to be a part of it, or not. God doesn't have to contend with anyone's free will. He's not powerless -- He simply didn't want to "force" us to worship Him, because that wouldn't have come from love, or respect for Him. Why are you speaking in terms of "absolutes" (either/or)? Our given behaviors aren't "innate", our personalities are shaped by two things: 1) our lives' experiences, & 2) how we choose to react to them. While we bring a lot of the former on ourselves, the latter can be greatly affected by the Holy Spirit -- if we allow Him to live in our hearts.

Answer 6

Pinch your self, no wait don't pinch your self because if you do God will have predetermined that you did, or wait if you don't do it he will have predetermined that you wont do it. As you see God put us on this earth so we would make our own choices, does he know what choice we will make? Maybe? I don't know how old you are but I am a father of two boys. When those boys were born and I watched them grow, I knew very close to the time they would walk, talk, and do a lot of the other things that most babies do. Does that mean I predetermined they would do those things? I think not. How is our father in heaven any different than that, as we are but babies as to our understanding and knowledge compared to him. He does not predetermine our destination we do. He may know what we are likely to do as he knows us so well but he does not force us in any direction.

Answer 7

Knowing the future and changing the present are two different factors. Just because God knows the future does not mean that we don't have free will. Just because he knows the decision we are about to make does not mean he coerced us into making that decision.

Edit: You argue that because God is all powerful he must force his will on everything that he creates? Don't be ridiculous. Power is not the end all, or obviously he would not only have created the universe differently, but also be readily available to smite people who act against his will. Does this reaffirmation of his power occur? Didn't think so.

Answer 8

hah!
well WE are humans!!!!
we r different from animals,,we have a free will bcoz we r checked by GOD that we r his real servants or not....he just cant give heaven to a person who rapes a woman and the other goes to a mosque or a church,,that is not justice!!!this world is a test for hereafter....if we do good we r rewarded and if not then there is a punishment!!!GOD is not cruel but the human is bcoz he gets so much knowledge about the world but never recognizes his true creator,,,,,

if all of us were good and kind then there was no need for hell and if all of us were bad then there was no need for heaven...He created both bcoz he wanted to see who does what god has told him to do and who walks away from his duties!!we have a choice and what we choose is up to us and what we will face in the life after death is due to our choices...think before u make a choice!!!!!!!!

walk away from reality or face the reality!!!!!!!!!

Answer 9

Look, What I am getting from your question comes down to life is not fair. God put all of us here, I believe, to teach us and to test us. To see if we will choose to follow Him. Now he put us here knowing full well that some people would choose to use their freedom of choice to do great works of good and others would use their choice to do great works of evil.

Now if you choose to see this as great cruelity, that is your choice. My choice is to see it as a great gift. If we had no choice we would have no progression, we as people would not learn and grow. So, people who have the tendancy for say adultry still has the choice not to engage in that behavior, they have the chance to overcome it, and he knows that some will and some won't. But, that person doesn't know if they can overcome it or not, this life gives them the chance to see if they will overcome it. I believe this stopping of progression would be truly cruel, as I firmly believe that we will go on in an afterlife when I die and I want to continue to progress.

Look because God is all knowing, then he knew that if we were left in a state like Adam and Eve was in the Garden of Eden...we would never know opposition, there was no sickness, no death, no cruelty there in the garden, only one rule...don't eat the fruit. Well, they ate the fruit and introduced opposition in all things to the world. So how do you know happiness if you never know sadness. Once I got sick and it crept upon me very, very slowly...I did not know how sick I was until I was 'cured' of the illness. Once I felt better...I realised how sick I truly was...it is the same thing.

Answer 10

God has a plan.
So did your parents!
They wanted you in bed at a certain time.
It was a good plan.
It was for your own good on a school night.
If you followed the plan, you would get enough rest for the entire school day.
Now, think of all the things that YOU did to defeat that simple plan.
That was you exerting your will over the plan.
So your argument follows; Your parents were cruel... Your parents were not All powerful... your parents did not exist!

Answer 11

God is none of the above. I'm not a theologist but I am a Christian. Pay attention. God knows what we are gonna do. He knows what we are thinking about doing. He says, 'I know all your thoughts, every one of them'. That's how he knows what we're gonna do. We think about it and we decide in our minds that we're gonna do it. Look, God gives us the choice to follow Him and to love and trust Him. Yes he knows what we're gonna do. But he ain't gonna stop us (when it's something bad) because he wants us to turn to Him. If you want to decide that you can do it all on you're own, then he's gonna let you do that. But God is always watching over you because we are all his children. He says that He is the god of all believers and nonbelievers. So you can not acknowledge Him as the Holy Father but he still is the Ultimate, the Creator, Alpha and Omega, the Most High, God of Abraham, Omnipitent, and all knowing. You can believe it or you can don't, but He IS. And there's nothing no one can do about it. You can be as atheist as you want but God is still above all. And one day we all gonna look up to Him on that great day of judgement and answer to Him. Will you be ready?

Chastidee