Why was Jesus lying about the need for a seed to die before it can bear much fruit?

Question

How can something that dies bring forth anything but plain putrefaction? Was Jesus abusing the ignorance of his followers? Or he didn't know any better himself?
John 12:24 "...Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

Father K and Mother Suz I can see that you are well trained defenders of the faith.... "Jesus never meant what he said!" Is that right?

I am using the only Holy Spirit inspired translation of the Bible the KING JAMES VERSION!

I am not getting any answers from any Atheist agnostic so one of you is going to get 10 POINTS!

Answer 1

Jesus was really stupid if he thought that a seed dies before it grows. That's just ridiculous. Any farmer knows that if seeds die, they don't produce ANYTHING and he has a wasted crop! Father K apparently does not know that there is no single, magical moment when a seed ceases to be a seed and becomes a plant. It is a continuous process of change and growth.

He also ignores the fact that most Christians have no clue what the original Greek word was. Most of them barely read the Bible at all and simply accept whatever the pastor tells them in his Sunday sermons. If they feel so little need to read their Bible cover-to-cover and actually study it, then why would they care what language it was written in thousands of years ago? All they know is what they see on the page, and what they read is that Jesus says that seeds die. Jesus gives no indication that he is using the word in a figurative sense, so how is anyone to know that it's figurative? You can make assumptions all day long, but in the end, you can't know for sure. So maybe he really did believe that seeds actually die in the soil, and then magically come back to life. It might have seemed that way to primitive people with no understanding of biology, but wouldn't the son of God know better? I'm betting the farmers of his time were not quite so stupid and would have laughed at him, had this event actually happened. The story was obviously made up by some idiot who had never planted crops in his life. I still hear Christians saying that seeds die when you plant them, because that's what the Bible says.

Answer 2

Jesus taught to the masses and by our standards most were little more than peasants. Presumably he would have known through the spirit about the nature of life and death, but to most the seed would be thought of as a dead thing that when put in the ground miraculously brought forth life in the form of wheat of fruit bearing trees. He used this as a familiar analogy presumably to what happens after a person dies..

Answer 3

In 1 Corinthians 15:36, there is reference to a seed needing to die before it can germinate. However, this is a reference from Paul and not Jesus. I do not find your reference. It might be from a different version of the bible. Here is another seed reference in the bible that is interesting though.


In Matthew, there is a reference of mustard seed being the smallest of seeds. That is not true. Also, there is reference to birds being able to make lodge in the branches of mustard plants. That is not possible.

13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.



For those who say that this is only due to a mistranslation or a misunderstanding of the bible. Those reason go to show that this is not a divine book but a book written by man. It shows that there can be error in the bible and that it is possible to incorrectly read the bible. That means that it is very capable of error and that anything in it needs to be backed up by proof before a person should blindly believe in it.


Umm. I am coming from the atheist/skeptical viewpoint.

Answer 4

Well, Jesus said Herod was a fox. Jesus said he himself was a door and vine. So if Jesus said a seed needs to die, that's part of his dyslexic - Yogi Berra type of speaking - it seems to me.

Well, maybe Jesus could have said that the seed, when planted in good ground, watered and weeded, will, over time yield a harvest as the seed unfolds itself and grows into what it is.

Answer 5

Jesus knew he had only a few days of life left, so he nicely illustrated his situation: “The hour has come for the Son of man to be glorified. Most truly I say to you, Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains just one grain; but if it dies, it then bears much fruit.”
One grain of wheat has little value. Yet what if it is put into the soil and “dies,” ending its life as a seed? It then germinates and in time grows into a stalk that produces many, many grains of wheat. Similarly, Jesus is just one perfect man. But if he dies faithful to God, he becomes the means of imparting everlasting life to faithful ones who have the same spirit of self-sacrifice that he has. Thus, Jesus says: “He that is fond of his soul destroys it, but he that hates his soul in this world will safeguard it for everlasting life.”

Answer 6

Ah yes....lots of less-informed skeptics (like you) hop on this one like white on rice, saying that Jesus offers here (and Paul in 1 Cor.) a fiction that seeds literally die, which is scientifically false.

Even on the surface your objection moves too fast -- the word used for "die" (apothnesko) carries both a literal and a figurative meaning, usually with reference to death in sin (cf. Rom. 5:15).

Ignorant critics who don't read Greek assume that apothnesko equates with our modern idea of clinical death -- but how can this be so, since such a concept did not yet exist, with medical textbooks thousands of years in the future?

For your objection to work, ,y deluded friend, you must show that apothnesko means only the total extinguishing of life signs and of living matter in a given organism, and that this concept applies not only to animal matter, but to plant matter as well.

As it is, that Jesus draws a parallel here to his resurrection -- a case in which his body did not get to decay to any real extent -- suggests rather a view in which seeds retained the spark of life in them even as their outer shells perished. A seed which bears fruit is no longer a seed at all -- it is something else, and for all intents and purposes, the seed is dead. Likewise a person who has died becomes a different creature upon resurrection (as Paul indicates).

Really, dude....get an education.

Answer 7

You have failed to understand a basic scientific and agricultural fact and tried to make the scriptures say something it doesnt.
All seeds must be put into the ground to produce fruit....in context, this is talking about seed planting...it also refers to Christ Himself. By one persons death for ALL, many are blessed.
His followers knew EXACTLY what he meant as he spoke to them in farming terms that they were very familiar with. And Jesus, BEING GOD Himself, knew the truth of what He said as well.

Answer 8

You're taking this verse much too literally. Think of it this way: in order for a butterfly to exist, a Caterpillar must first "die." It certainly doesn't literally die, but it does give up its past form in order to progress to its perfected state.

EDIT: Jesus DID mean what He said, but, being a Jew, He also SPOKE like one. Jews very frequently use metaphores. Apparently, you are not aware of this.

Answer 9

You definately do not have the understanding of JOHN 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN AGAIN HE CANNOT SEE [until you are you will be blind to understanding Jesus] the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN.. [from the KJV and my own experience with Christ Jesus]

Answer 10

You are right, dying in and of itself, does bring forth death, but not all death brings petrifaction. We are called to die to ourselves so that we may be born in Christ. That is what happens when somebody is baptized and that is what happens when I attend Mass & receive the Eucharist: I die to myself so that I may find new life in Christ. Only then, through the power of Christ, can we bear much fruit.

God Bless