What do Christians that DON'T believe in ETERNAL TORMENT have to say about Revelation 14 and 20?

Question

LDS and JWs included.

Answer 1

God does not create beings just to leave them in circumstances that would force them to experience suffering and torment without an end, as humans now do upon this earth—only a sadistic Creator would do this. We were created to experience the ultimate balance of nature—happiness.

...When people hear the truth, they will be “tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb” (see Revelation 14:10). In other words, they will be extremely embarrassed by how they have chosen to live, and by what they have allowed themselves to believe [during mortality].

...Further, we suffer torment and tribulation because of the reaction of our flesh (the third) to our environs on this earth, and also by the way we treat and are treated by others. When we do not do unto others as we would have them do unto us, or others do not do unto us as we would want done unto us, our flesh feels the effects through emotional strains of anxiety and depression.

...Our human natures create hell on earth by digging this great pit. Our desires of worldly riches, glory, power, superiority, and seclusion in our human groups of race, family, communities, cities, and nations, cause a never-ending situation of conflict, inequality, argument, war, and competition. No matter how rich we become, our human natures entice us to lust for more. No matter how powerful we might become, we seek to become more powerful.
In our efforts to become Number One in any given situation, whether that be the best at our job, in the academia world, in artistic theater, in the athletic arena, or in any other personal pursuit, our desire to excel above others is endless.

...In protecting our selfish interests, the flesh propels us into a protectionist state of existence where our instincts to survive and be recognized as special cause us to forget all aspects of doing unto others what we would want done unto us. Thus in mortality, we are in an endless state (bottomless pit) of trying to satisfy our human natures.

...Through the tribulation and “torment” that mortals experience, they will obtain knowledge of good and evil; in other words, what works for them and brings them peace and happiness and what does not—mostly experiencing what does not. This is a period in which we learn right from wrong by experiencing both, after which we are redeemed of our tribulation—relieved of our “torment”—after all the learning has taken place.

...When the truth is known, those who have (directly or indirectly, knowingly or unknowingly) caused unhappiness to another person will feel an embarrassment and torment (“fire”), and will be repulsed by the repugnant smell (“brimstone”) of what they have done with their free agency.

... As formerly established, “smoke” is defined as the leftover particles of a substance which were not torn apart by the heat of fire. We will “for ever and ever” remember how we were “tormented” living in a world without the Royal Law as its foundation. These memories will always keep us singing praises to God and honoring the law He has established for our happiness.


These quotes all come from the book that describes exactly what John meant by all he wrote in the book of Revelation. The author was taught by John himself. Unbelievable you say? You can read for yourself and find out one way or the other. The book is free at the site below:

Answer 2

According to LDS theology, there are several different definitions of "hell" depending on the context. These have been understood through modern revelation. Here are a few:

1. Spirit Prison (aka hell): This is where those who have a.) not been baptized or b) baptized but wicked go while they await resurrection. The wicked must suffer for their sins. The unbaptized can learn of Jesus Christ and his gospel here. My understanding is that in ancient hebrew "eternal" could be interpreted several ways. One of these is "god-like". In other words "eternal torment" is "god-like torment" (rather than everlasting and unending).

2. Telestial kingdom: This is where the liars, adulterers, and murderers will end up. It's glory is likened to that of the stars (vs the sun or moon). After these people have spent some time behind door number one (aka hotel hell) they'll spend eternity here.

2b. Another definition is "anything short of the highest glory" because you'll be eternally tormented for what you COULD have had.

3. Outer darkness: This is where "sons of perdition" will end up. They will have bodies, but no glory. Very difficult place to get to. This is probably the closest to what you would imagine eternal torment being. You have to be REALLY righteous and know Christ personally, and then reject him. Few people will ever know Christ that well in this life to be able to fall that far.


I don't know which version of "hell" revelations is referring to. I'd have to research it.

Answer 3

I am not a LDS or JW. I don't believe in eternal torment because the bibles which teach it have been mistranslated.
Look at Young's Literal Translation of Rev 14:11 and compare it to what you've read in other versions.

11and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.

Ages of ages does not mean forever. Here is the proof. Look at Rev 11:15 and compare it with 1 Corinth 15:24-28


15And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, `The kingdoms of the world did become [those] of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign to the ages of the ages!'

24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[a] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

If "the ages of the ages" is translated "forever and ever" as it is in some Bibles, then there is a contradiction because Jesus does not reign forever if he will one day hand the kingdom over to His Father.
The ages of the ages means a plural number of ages from among all the ages. When those ages have expired, punishment will cease, death will be abolished, and ALL will be united with God so that God will be ALL in ALL.

EDIT: Although I don't know Greek myself, I wasn't just going by one translation, but rather just giving an example of one. I have read up on this and am certian it is not forever.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/PowerOfLifeAndDeathInAGreekFourLetterWord.html

Answer 4

Oh I believe, you aint got to hit me over the head with a stick, well I guess I was hit pretty hard a few times, but I definitely get it now, Aint no one wants judgement day that hasn't got Jesus Christ in thier life, Revelations says they will run and try to hide, its serious, I am telling you, I am witnessing to all of you, The Bible is real, and its time to wake up and take those blinder off, because this is your chance, to come to your salvation, God sent His Son out of Mercy, not good works, It is our Gift from The Lord, They don't want it the other way,
Be prepared.

Answer 5

Many people read the Bible selectively. If something messes up what they believe they just take it out or ignore it. This aids in proof-texting and scripture twisting exercises.


edit-- out of the grey, you might profit from actually taking Greek and not taking the word of yet another translator. the
the word is "aiwnav" in Greek and it means - for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

Sorry you are incorrect in your stance on the "mistranslation".

Answer 6

Why does that even matter really? Would that affect you?

Firstly, you shouldn't base your decision on faith on those who claim to follow something.

I can claim to be a buddhist or even more I can claim that I am doing my best to follow buddhism. Does that give you the right to judge buddhism as a whole if I screw up or I figure i should just throw out all the teachings of buddha because it hinders my personal progress to support my greed?

I mean to simplify it.
You shouldnt judge a school because of how stupid the drop outs are who don't even do their homework.
Get it?

The number one reason for atheism in america are the people who claim to be christians.

The problem is, people who base their decisions on that are not even thinking honestly to themselves.

Would you judge all muslims or Islam just for the actions of OSAMA?
I mean, if you find a verse that CLEARLY teaches what he did/does, then that makes sense.

But if you look at the bible and it says Love your enemies,
Then you see someone who doesn't follow it but claims to be a christian, does it make logical sense to reject Christianity or to consider that person to be simply an UNBELIEVER?

Logic dictates the person is an UNBELIEVER, if he believes what he reads then he will do something about it.

So if you think about it, the fake christians are atheists.
Think about it, if they really believe God, then why do the opposite of what God says?

I'm exaggerating though, I dont mean they are literally atheists, but what I am saying is that you should wonder if they truly believe that there is a God or that what they claim to believe is actually something they believe rather than just claiming for the sake of other reasons like family or their friends.

Ok, some people usually blab about the bible having all these wars etc.
Those are the people who intentionally try not to understand.
Think about it,
The very reason Jesus came was to abolish those things people were doing.
So why do you ignore the part that jesus came to abolish and keep complaining about " BUT THE OLD TESTAMENT COMMANDS THIS THIS THIS"

You complain about " OT has plenty of man made rules"
JESUS CAME TO ABOLISH THAT!
Thats why he came and simplified it.
1. Love God = Love others to love God/ Love God by Loving Others.
2. Love others like you love yourself
3. Forgive others.
4. Do what you know is right- conscience/honor/charity/character/respect/dignity etc....

Thats really the simplicity of it.
Then people came up with organized religion again and crapped up what Jesus came to destroy.
They came back and made it a bunch of religious rituals going to church etc... But if you look at the bible Church means people NOT BUILDINGS not even organization.
CHURCH= ECCLESIA- PEOPLE.
So you can hang out with believers in your lawn or back yard and THAT IS CHURCH already.

Anyway thats how simple Christianity is.
Love God,
Love Others.
Forgive others if you want to be forgiven.
Love others is more than saying it, there are things like helping them, treating the people in need not like people in need but treating them like you would your own family members...

Anyway its THAT SIMPLE.
people try to avoid this simple thing and try to argue and nitpick about theological discussions and old testament just because they want to avoid that very simple thing.
new testament.

I mean, the simplicity of giving a set amount of your money to needy people is far too difficult for greedy americans to do...

So, if you want to prove that unbelievers are "GOOD" people, even though everyone is imperfect and needs cleansing....
Well put your money where your mouth is... Do charity with every paycheck that you get. 10% percent for STARTERS-
If thats too easy, then RAISE IT UP. go 15% 20% 25% then keep going up. Someday you might get to 80%.

Remember to pay your debt though. Haha.



Anyways, those hypocrites are simply a proof that supports the faith even more.. It shows HOW HIGH the moral standards are and that it shows that you agree that those moral standards have to be upholded or else you wouldn't be offended by their behaviour.
So yeah, God's standards are PERFECT. It is more than obvious that we are to fail.

But the good news is. WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS CHRIST DIED FOR US.

We broke God's UNIVERSAL LAW and Christ still loved us enough to take the death penalty for us.

Grace and Peace.

Answer 7

well I speak for me, not others, Im a christian, I follow Jesus.

Now many error, thats why some may think this, you seem to judge all christians,,, which i find hateful,, do you hate? are you saved?

God by his only son Jesus, saves all... in two ways? which i would not tell anyone unless they ask me..

Few are saved?in Christ,Jesus, skip the fire! the rest go in another way? how ? by FIRE!

ill leave it at that... lol read the bible,pray for wisdom.

Answer 8

What about people that go through meaningless torture while alive? Talking about psycological....mental illness' if they don't believe in the biblical god, they are tortured after life also......the biblical god makes no sense to me, I tend to not believ in senseless stuff.

Answer 9

Metaphorical.

Answer 10

complete anialation is not what I'd call eternall torment. It is destruction of the body and soul.