Catholics and the pope?

Question

I tried getting at this earlier and provided too much information. People got sidetracked. So trying again.

Catholics if you got up tomorrow and the pope issued a statement and said he had realized through study that purgatory does not exist. Would you accept this? Would you start teaching against it even though today you fully believe it exists? Would you send the pope letters with verses supporting purgatory or just accept it?

If you answer is going to be something along the lines of this would never happen please don't bother answering. I want people who can think hypothetically.

Vicar of Christ - No. But I don't claim infallibility for my pastor. Lets assume for your sake the pope was speaking ex cathedra.

panglosswasright - I have spent the greater part of my life studying biology. I do research in a molecular evolution lab. I have been published in mainline scientific journals. I understand evolution. And yes I reject molecules to man evolution. The evidence for it is all circumstantial. It can just as easily be used to prove a creator if one is willing to accept the possibility of God.

cynical - actually I think many Catholics would accept it completely if the pope said it. Which is why people like "vicar of Christ" are dodging the question.

sparki777 - Not at all I appreciate the answer. I guess I am just wondering how big a change the pope could make before people would really question it.

Answer 1

Well...the purgatory example isn't a very good one, sorry. Can I switch it to something else that might really happen?

Suppose I woke up tomorrow and the pope issued a statement that after studying more, he was lifting the celibacy requirement for priests and from now on, priests could marry (after observing the standard rules for marriage, like premarital counseling).

Would I accept this? Yes.

Would I start teaching it even if I fully believed that priests were better off being celibate? Yes.

Would I send the pope letters with Scripture supporting priestly celibacy? Probably not, because though I've studied Scripture a lot (minor in Religion, Bible Study Fellowship alumnus), I don't think I know more than the pope does. Besides, he doesn't issue such decrees unilaterally -- he's got a large number of bible scholars at the Vatican who search and study and pray over everything to makes sure he's on track.

The reason why the purgatory thing doesn't work for me is because it's unchanging doctrine. The pope does not have the power to change something like that. So I need to answer the question in terms of where he CAN issue some sort of a statement that really changes things. I hope you don't mind.

EDITED TO ADD:

Edge, I can kind of understand why you want to find out how much power the pope has, because in many (not all) Protestant traditions, a preacher or a head of a denomination really has a lot of control in this way. The papacy really isn't like that. I know we have that whole "infallibility" thing going, but it's rarely ever used and there really are "checks and balances."

Our current pope is very studious -- really, he is a scholar more than anything and this whole role of public ministry is completely outside his natural character. It is wonderful to see how the Holy Spirit is enabling him to do the public speaking and all that he is expected to do as the earthly leader of our church, but he's more comfortable reading and writing than anything. (I encourage you to read his first encyclical, "God is Love" -- it's just amazing reading for any Christian.) Anyway, a pope has a very heavy responsibility in that he will answer to God for all souls who live on earth while he is pope. Not just all Catholics, and not even all Christians, but all souls. I know of no Protestant leader that looks at it this way -- they either believe that once a person prays the sinner's prayer, they're good to go and there's nothing more to worry about, or they believe that each person answers for themselves and so they don't feel the same responsibility. Catholicism is different, because we are taught that we do have responsibility for others and we must help our spouses/kids/family, friends, and fellow Christians avoid stumbling, as the Bible says. Most Catholics approach that with various degrees of seriousness, but it is what we are taught.

For priests, sisters, bishops, cardinals and the pope, however, who have given up their whole lives to serve the Church, this is a very serious charge that cannot be ignored.

It's a very humbling experience to carry that kind of responsibility, and it can only be borne with a great deal of prayer and reliance on the Lord. A sensible and intelligent man will not let the papacy get to his head where he starts issuing decrees willy nilly. This is why if the pope comes out with a very serious statement regarding what we should believe and why, most Catholics are going to accept what he has to say and learn to adopt it. That doesn't mean we can't question it, though. Some aren't interested in questioning, but the ones who are can question to their heart's content as long as they are listening to the answer.

Answer 2

Let me put it to you this way. Hypothetical questions are designed as thought experiments. They are only useful if there is a reasonable expectation that the thing in question is at least remotely possible.

The Catholic teaching of purgatory doesn't need to be a "place" where one spends time. The mere concept that a person cannot enter heaven while the stain of sin is on them necessitates some sort of purgatory. As humans, even if one may be saved, there is still a sinful nature. NO HUMAN EVER is completely free from all sinful thought or deed. At the moment of death, even a Christian may have sinful thoughts such as despair.

The action which god takes to remove this sinful nature is the essence of the Catholic idea of purgatory. How long it takes, where or when it happens is irrelevant; it is simply a fact that people will have (according to the Bible) some sort of sinful nature, and sin cannot coexist with God. If there were no purgation, sinful people with sinful natures would be allowed in heaven.

So, on to your question. Let's ask another hypothetical one. If Jesus came to Earth and said "there is no god", would you believe him? This is another question which is impossible to happen. Thus, it makes no sense to try to answer it. See my point?

Answer 3

There's no problem, we will support it because the teaching of purgatory is not part of Catholic dogma; it is a doctrinal issue which may be changed based on the magisterial judgment of the Church. In fact, these days the Catholic Church does not anymore emphasize the teaching of both purgatory and limbo. Very tricky question, though, tsk,tsk, tsk. Nice try. You should consider applying for membership with the Neo-Pharisaichal Club.

Answer 4

We can thank God that as Catholics we do not have to worry about the changing of doctrines. I appreciate you reminding us of that fact. That illustrates why the Church is the ark from the world for the faithful and the Bible speaks of the Church as the bulwark and ground of the truth. Praise God for what He has created for mankind.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Actually the Doctrine of Purgatory was declared dogma by both the Councils of Florence and Trent. It cannot be changed but it can be further defined as more is revealed to the Church by the Spirit.

Answer 5

I was raised Catholic in Catholic schools, and slowly realized that everything like that shi@ is made up by men, Christ nor none of the deciples ever spoke of a place where we would sit in purgatory after death, there is however living in 'hell' or living in 'death' as in death of the soul, but no matter to me since judgement day is very soon and I'm not a murderer, idoliter, udolterer (whatever), cynic, complainer, whathaveya'. My aunt claims she was dead once and was taken by Christ to see Satan in the deep of the earth, he appeared as a gray skinned creature over 10 feet tall, maybe 20, eyes like a shark, chest like a chicken with short legs, a totally emotionless expression just like a dead look of a shark. I could care less what the Pope says, since the Pagans started that church and there is much much proof of it, so I've gone Christian.

Answer 6

You do know that most Catholics can think for themselves, do you? Some of them don't even like new Pope.

Actually, I know many Catholics who wouldn't give a crap. There is more to the Church than the guy with the pointy hat.

Answer 7

The reason it could never happen is because the Pope doesn't have the authority to change catechism, which is what he'd have to do to negate Purgatory.

So, you didn't ask a hypothetical question.

Answer 8

If the pope was speaking ex cathedra, yes. I kinda don't believe in it now.

So call an inquisitor.

Answer 9

I just want to say that the Roman Catholic Church is false religion which its members were misguided by the Vatican or exclusively by the pope. There is no such purgatory stated in the bible. It is within the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church so there teachings are not based solely in the bible.
jtmj

Answer 10

i like to think for myself, i dont need some man telling me what to do besides the big guy himself,, Jesus.... preacher man is just a preacher man,, Pope too,, a man of God, but he's not God,, nor does the Pope have any closer link to Him than you or I do