what do the mormons think??

Question

i was reading an article from a credible site that said that joseph smith was arrested and had a record.. it said the authentic documents had went missing for 35 years, but they have been found and proven authentic... this kinda proves what ive been sayin all along... he was a liar... so my quesiton is, why dont mormons take this as evidence? i mean, its tangible proof... why would you continue to beleive a religion that is based on brainwashing and insane ideas?

whoops... i forgot to add the link


http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon430.htm

dang... bongernet again...... everytime i think we have escaped you, you show up out of the blue..... hes like locust, or beetlejuice.

guys, im not askin anyone to bash my religion.... i am asking about a religion that has been proven false...... if you dont have anything relevant to say, please dont answer.....yes, i am a christian.... i dont base my ideas on insane beliefs some crazy guy made up 100 years ago... i have had personal experinces with Jesus, and have seen him work in my life..... so take a tip from kindergarten... if ya dont have anything nice to say.... you know the rest.

uhhh... ok, to the girl (answeret10, i think) who says that i shouldnt use a mormon site to sway you from your religion.... so, explain to me how the site i got the info from matters?? they were proven AUTHENTIC and CREDIBLE documents.... you do know that the us court system keeps all cases and infractions on file, dont you?? do you not think its strange that these arrest records went "missing" for several years??

odd duck....you need to learn the difference between "bashing" and asking a question..... i m a christian, and i hear it all day long... ppl bashing.. but i also hear non christians asking simple relevant questions about chrisitnanity.. and i dont consider it bashing at all... i consider it as someone was curious.... i think youre just mad cause youre not quite sure you believe it yourself.

good grief ppl!! im so sick of being called a "hater" or whatever... i am not spreading hate! i have a genuine question that deserves an answer just like any other ligitimate question on here! all ive heard mormons say is" yeah, he was arrested, but that doesnt mean hes guilty"... give me a break! he was arrested several times! before he made up the religion he was known for telling "tall tales" as they say...its evident i will get no real answer from any mormon.... even as a christian, i am getting frustrated... i deal with this all the time on this site... ppl hating, and that is not what im doing! i know the difference between someone being just plain mean and someone with a valid question! i suggest the mormons learn the same difference! i guess now i know what atheist feel like when they ask christian questions.

odd duck... yeah, i think its best that that is the last thing you have to say on the matter.... youre just too defensive to give a good answer... and there are PLENTY of un biased site that expose mormonsism.... ill find one for ya now.

phrog: thank you so much for finally giving me an educated answer from a mormon... :)

moonman: PLEASE DONT COMPARE JOSEPH SMITH TO JESUS CHRIST! Jesus was infallible and sinless! he came for a purpose, and took utter torture by his own will so that his followers may live... the 2 are not even on the same spectrum!

ttrepark: im so curious to know where you ppl keep using the word "hate" in reference to the way i feel... i do NOT hate anyone! i dont hate satanist, i dont hate atheists, i dont hate mormons, i dont hate catholics or even jw's. in my opinion, its not true, but that doesnt mean i hate ppl of the religion... or even the religion for that matter... its apparent that mormons are very defensive about their belief... i was thinking the mormons were the more calm and out of all the denominations....wrong again. of course i expected mormons to rebuke me.... but, i surely didnt expect ppl to say i was a hater of any kind. and i will ask again, please do not compare joe smith with Jesus!

Answer 1

Excellent question, sweet sister! They also claim that native Americans have ancestry in Israel, but recent DNA proves their ancestry is from northern Asia. Yet the LDS hierarchy has remained silent about that, knowing full well that it totally wipes out any authenticity about the "church"

Blessings at ya!

Answer 2

This was done by an ex mormon. Don't you think they have other motives- like maybe trying to prove the church is false? You use an anti-mormon site to try and sway us, but what you don't understand is that if there was such a record, we in the church would know about it. They don't keep things hidden from us.

I'll be the first to admit that Joseph was arrested. He was arrested many times. He was never CONVICTED of a crime though. That's a different thing. Not one judge or jury could find fault or show that he had done anything that he was charged with.

I'm sorry you feel the need to belittle what someone else believes in. I wish you could see that people are people, and that we all deserve respect. I don't bash someone else's beliefs. That is their own personal thing. Why do you feel you need to do the same thing? Respect brings respect. Please try to be respectful to me, and I'll do the same for you.

Oh.. by the way, my religion has NOT been proven false, except my people like you who feel it is their life's work to do so. Please refrain from saying things that you have no idea about. Thank you.

Oh.. you are wrong. I do know what I believe. I know very well what I believe. You said it's a credible site, but I don't think it's credible, and the link doesn't work anyway. If you want a credible site, find a story not put out by someone who hates the church, who can give an unbiased opinion. Posting an anti-LDS site is bashing. It might not be direct bashing, but it is. That is all I am going to say on that matter.

Answer 3

First, any one can have someone arrested, especially back then. Joseph Smith was arrested many times, we don't deny that. However, he was NEVER convicted of any crime. These records you speak of never showed any conviction, only that Joseph Smith appeared before a judge and some money was paid out by him for the priviledge, but there is NO record of any conviction. In fact, there is much dispute over whether what he was accused of was really a crime!

Second, do you know the story of how these records came to light?

One Wesley P. Walters, anti-Mormon extraordinaire, found them in the Bainbridge Co. Courthouse basement, and STOLE them from the courthouse. He STOLE them. And when his crime was found out, did he return them?

NO! He had to be SUED in court to get them back!!

Not to mention that, by taking these records without permission or anyone's knowledge, there is now some doubt that these records have not been altered in any way. So, there will always be some doubt that these "records" are accurate, and have not been altered or forged or something.

Therefore, there is nothing for us to worry about.

Answer 4

His 'early arrests' stemmed from persecution from people who scoffed at his 'first vision' - when God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph and told him to join none of the 'christian' denominations as they had become lost and confounded in false doctrine. Just because an honest man is persecuted from the age of 14 does not preclude his honesty later in life nor negate any achievements he had. You will find fault because you are looking for fault. That site is not credible.
Was Joseph arrested time and again? certainly - he was even murdered while in jail. You have been fed vitriol and hatred about this man and twisted facts. Do not expect Mormons to hail you in gratitude for your words. You may indeed find some Latter-day Saints who do not study the religion and history and be able to confound and confuse them and get them to turn from the Church. But not those who have studied and received a certain testimony. You see, I have received confirmation that Joseph was a prophet from God. I will not be turned from that witness by mere men. Revile me and hate me if you will. I will not deny what I know.

Answer 5

Nothing on that site is "credible". If you want the truth about our faith, ask one of us. Would you ask a Catholic what a Baptist believes? Or a Baptist what a Methodist believes? I know I wouldn't.

Yes, Joseph Smith was arrested because of his religion. No one in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has ever or will ever deny that fact.

Now, to get your facts straight about the circumstances of his arrest: The "powers that be" during that time were only trying to take away his constitutional right of freedom of religion by doing that. Those same people ended up killing him because of his religion. That makes those people who killed early Mormons no better than Hitler and the Nazi's who killed the Jews. Why would anyone want to kill another over their religious beliefs?

For the truth about what happened, check out the OFFICIAL church website:

Answer 6

Just because someone is arrested, doesn't mean they are guilty. If you know anything about LDS history, you will see that his arrests were made out of spite. Sometimes the judge was fair, other times the treatment the guards gave him made it clear that the reason he was arrested was personal and not legal. At one point they tried to feed him human flesh while he was being kept with several others in the basement of a prison that was too low to even stand up in. He was kept there for months. Read D&C 121 and 122 to get a feel of how bad it must have been and what the Lords reaction was. See this link: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/contents.

It is no secret to anyone within the LDS church that Joseph Smith was arrested several times. After all, he was shot and killed by a mob which stormed the prison he was staying in.

If you are going to make the accusation that he was a false prophet, because he was accused of a crime, you will also be saying that Christ is false too. He was tried and executed for crimes while He was truly . I firmly believe in Christ regardless of this too.

Answer 7

First of all- I have never heard anyone deny that Joseph Smith was arrested- I have been taught that my whole life. America is founded on the innocent until proven guilty thing- and like others have said- he was never convicted therefore never proven guilty.

Also I visited The places where he was held in Jail as a child- so you can't say that it is kept from us or that we deny it.

Secondly- the site you provided a link is not a credible source- it is filled with half truths and quotes that are taken out of context. It is run by bitter ex-mormons for bitter ex-mormons. Find a site- like drugde or something that is unbiased and actually has credible information and I might listen.

Answer 8

*shake head*

Thank you, Phrog- nicely put. Your answer has my vote.


BTW- I've known OddDuck for a very long time (over 20 years), and whether you're willing to admit it or not, she does believe. Sure, she may sound kinda defensive, but the way your question is worded does sound kinda troll-ish.

You ask what we're thinking- is that an honest question or are you implying that we aren't thinking, or are refusing to acknowledge these things?... can you see how it looks to us?

Yes, Joseph Smith was arrested- he was shot and killed while in jail! Yes, he was convicted of glass-looking, but then, at that time, a lot of people did all kinds of divination- witching for water is just one example.

Most Mormons are well aware that Joseph Smith wasn't always on the right side of the law. The thing is- often the law wasn't always applied equitably to him or the Mormons in general.


FYI- Did you know that at the time the anti-polygamy law was passed, it was an unconstitutional law?... In the Constitution of the US--
a) we as citizens are given the right to practice religion as we see fit. That law was passed for the express purpose of restricting the Mormons' religious practices
b) it states that no law can be applied to acts that were performed before the law is passed. At the time those weddings were performed, they were legal, but that law was used to end those marriages- women who were polygamous wives- not their husband's first wife- were forced to never see their husbands again. One of my ancestors was basically robbed of her husband because of that law.


You want to know what we're thinking. We're thinking that maybe by now, the laws of the US will be applied fairly to all, no matter a person's religious affiliation.. that the US government will stand up and defend the citizens of this nation when a petition for redress is submitted...

The members of the early LDS church were robbed, beaten, driven out of their homes, killed.... And we asked the federal government over 100 times for some kind of justice. Nothing happened- in fact, we had to leave the country to find peace. Sadly, we still don't get that peace. Come to our twice-a-year conferences some time. There's protesters all over the place!!!



Please don't take this as a tirade against you, but can you see why we get a little up tight when people say stuff like this?

Answer 9

Does the Bible teach that the prophets are infallible? No. In fact, in some cases, we find prophets who sinned and were derelict in their duty, such as the prophet Jonah, who fled from a difficult assignment.

Prophets are mortals who receive the gift of prophecy from time to time, as God directs. Not everything they do or say will be inspired. For the LDS, we are not expected to believe all that any Church leader ever said, but instead those things which have been accepted and approved by consent of the leadership bodies of the Church (similar to the way the Biblical canon was established).

Not every word of Peter, James, and Paul, for example, was necessarily sacred, and some of them made mistakes. But there were times when the power of God moved them to write scripture which others were inspired to recognize as scripture. Having the Spirit of God move you from time to time does not make you perfect. Being a chosen and ordained prophet does not make every opinion true, nor does it make one superior in every area of knowledge.

The Reverend J.R. Dummelow (not LDS) described the authors of the Bible in terms that ought to be applied, in all fairness, to Joseph Smith also - "Though purified and ennobled by the influence of the Holy Spirit, these men each had his own peculiarities of manner and disposition - each with his own education or want of education - each with his own way of looking at things - each influenced differently from one another by the different experiences and disciplines of his life. Their inspiration did not involve a suspension of their natural faculties; it did not make them free from earthly passion; it did not make them into machines - it left them men. Therefore we find their knowledge sometimes no higher than that of their contemporaries.... "(J.R. Dummelow, One Volume Bible Commentary, p. 85)

Answer 10

No one has ever denied that Joseph was arrested. He was arrested many times. On your link there is a link to the "official" news story that doesn't work anymore. That I might have accepted as an unbiased opinion, but all that on your link was written by exmormons and is too make themselves feel better about leaving the church.

Answer 11

Boy oh Boy, you've got them now. 13 Million brainwashed people walking around like zombies can't even read history to know that their leader was arrested.

Of course, if you are arrested, that automatically means you are guilty in this country. Just ask Paula Zahn!