martial arts techniques?

Question

more of an opinion request than a real question. Yesterday me and a few friends had a bit of a discussion after class about the techniques taught in class. My point was basically that in a real fight one hardly ever uses the techniques used in class. The techniques taught are great stuff for teaching you all about balance, posture, stance, use of the hips and feet as driving force but usually the perfect techniques are a tad inpractical in a real fight you're most likely to use a more crude form of technique rather than the perfect one taught in class. (not that I'm a fan of this but check what the guys in UFC or vale tudo do) and let's face it many of the kicks and punches are waayy too unpractical to work in a real situation. class techniques are a great teaching tool but hardly the weapon of choice in a real fight. So what's your opinion.

Just to clarify one thing for the people that didn't get it all the way. I'm not saying that it's not important to perfect your technique. I study aikido myself and get the point behind perfecting the elaborate and unpractical techniques. I'm just saying that in a street situation you're not going to give the perfect punches and kicks like in class but stomp and hack into the opponent. Studying techniques however helps you to perfect your fighting.

Answer 1

I think way too much is made of this.
As you mentioned, these are exercises. They are designed to give you skills. Balance, speed, agility, power, etc... are all developed in this way and that has to be useful. I assume you also train with scenarios that are more realistic and this is where it all comes together.
These are called exercises for a reason. They're not designed to imitate combat; they simply train an aspect of it. Nobody ever asks if a boxer should be hitting a light-bag (not a practical punch) - everybody understands the speed and agility he's developing will be useful when he does get in the ring.
Another point about "impractical" techniques I've read about recently. It made sense to me. The idea is you're practicing an ideal form of the technique. If you're being attacked, it's unlikely you'll have the maneuver room necessary to perform it as it's taught to you. However, you are taught this ideal of the technique to know what you are aiming for. Also, you don't simply learn a technique and move on. You're expected to practice something 10 000 times and more. So by the time you get to that black belt, you know that technique well enough that you can play with variations of it. You may even have a chance to perform it textbook-style.

Answer 2

I totally agree and tell my students basically the same thing. You are practicing doing something under ideal conditions and that is not always the case in a street situation. If the person is standing directly in front of you, not ready or not expecting you to do something and not too close or far then you can do a perfect kick and maybe end it quickly. Often times that is not the case though as people come at you from different angles, are not always just standing there in front of you with their hands in their pockets and sometimes your first technique may not be as effective as you want. You therefore have to be prepared to deal with that person who is now wary of you that is probably punching, wrestling, and grappling with you at that point.

To also help alleviate this we practice "first strike" techniques that are done based on the distance between you and your opponent, that are easy to do, maximally effective, and don't require a great deal of strength so that even a smaller person can do them and include besides kicks, punches, elbow strikes, finger strikes to the eyes, open handed strikes to the facial area, and knees to the groin. Not even these techniques guarantee that you will come out on top but they will give you an edge initially so that you can follow-up and try and dispatch your adversary or turn and run.

Answer 3

The novice blocks and then punches
The expert blocks and punches at the same time
The master doesn't block.
You can't compare "agreement matches"to actual self defense.Adrenaline hits your nervous system like a bomb and the 1st things lost are fine motor skills which are required for those detailed movements used in training.It also effects your ability to think clearly and many fights are lost by the defender searching in his head for some super duper wondrous technique he was taught .Paralysis by analysis is common among martial artists.
Technique should appear without concious thought by the time you think of a proper response the opportunity has passed.
Also teaching the fundamentals of a basic technique seems to have been forgotten and in a lot of cases never known to begin with.Fundamentals and basics are 2 different things.
What does it take to reach the "without concious thought" stage? Daily practice everyday .Can you honestly say you can't find a half hour everyday to work a technique ?Doesn't have to be at the dojo and you shouldn't try to cram as many techniques into that time as possible 1 or 2 simple moves repeated over and over will do it.
Yeah I know it's boring.

Answer 4

The only way you can find out if this is true is to attack your teacher with practical techniques used in a street fight.Go on just try it ,go full force at your teacher using only practical techniques and you will see what happens.He will use a technique that wouldnt be so practical but i bet he makes you look silly.For example if a pro boxer fought a pro kickboxer in a streat fight who would have the upperhand ? The kickboxer would because the boxer may not and will not know how to defend kicks so the kickboxer would use a technique that the boxer isnt familiar with and cant defend it and get k.o'd in one kick technique.Every techinque is usefull otherwise it wouldnt be taught ,you have to decide what techniques are usefull to you.For example i dont find the cresent kick very usefull as i cant generate much power with it but i like the technique i could use it to dissarm sombody with a knife if i have the perfect timing,speed and technique.It all depends what you deem usefull to you and what techniques you are confident with.

Answer 5

Here I go geting myself into trouble again. If it is as you say, then there were a lot of dead monks outside of Shaolin. My theory is that MOST martial arts today have devolved into what everyone here is describing. I was an observer at a Korean Martial Arts scholl for about 2 years. I observed a 4th degree teaching a Chinna technique to a novice student. As I had a repore with the instructor I approached and demonstrated the technique... correctly. At which time I was informed that the techniques "are not supposed to work until they learn them as black belts". HUH? Generally, all techniques in Martial arts are disabling or killing... it is the understanding and application that must be learned.

Answer 6

I think it has more to do with there being no real masters anymore. Who has the time to perfect an art over 10 or ever 20 years.

You also have to remember that most martial arts teach you a very specific skill set which is likely to be very different from what you encounter in real life.

Aikido, for instance, has a lot of techniques used against someone with a sword.

I always found that to be one of the big problems with the martial arts.

1. They teach you to defend against other martial artists.
2. That most of the striking martial arts don't give you much of an advantage against larger opponents.

Answer 7

I Agree!!

Having been a bouncer and effectively and successfully applied jiu-jitsu and boxing techniques in many real situations including facing two,three man and improvised weapons,I can honestly say that my techniques where not class perfect,mainly due to the build up of adrenaline and fear that real threatening situations induce.
True a lot of class techniques are impractical for the street but I've always been inclined to stick to no nonsense simple ones which have became my own personal base foundation whilst under real pressure,and I'm sure many other martial artists think the same instilling to muscle memory and keep things simple then usually 3-5 proven techniques suffice for me personally.

Answer 8

Martial Arts been really a part of my daily life, without even thinking the worth of it may turn my ways into useless efforts, because being a person who tend to live things essentially, then realization will full you into the means that things lies not only on self defense ways and methods but also on so many aspects that most answerers been mentioned here. I always explain to my students that Martial Arts is not just about physical skills and knowledge, there are so many things you need to consider, wherein the most important ability is respect and discipline that will start within themselves, wherein such cover the personal tolerance certain practitioner has, like attitude, behavior, patience, self control, manner, conduct, mind-set, approach, methods, ways, means, time management and so many factors that they gain as time go through. So many things certain must consider, this is about proper goal, aim and objectives, but those can be achieve only if they will set aside their ego and prides, wherein the best tools is persons total focus, willingness and determination to learn every aspects it covers. Good luck ...............

Answer 9

I think that perfect practice leads to perfect techniques.
The whole point of training is to NOT abandon what you are taught. If you feel that your school is not teaching you practical techniques then you should check out other schools in your area.
Any athletic fool can get in a "fight" and win with sheer physical strength. This is not martial arts. Martial arts are all about technique. Martail arts are about the lady walking to her car and is assualted by two guys that want more than her purse adn she knows how to get out of the situation alive because she has recieved and practiced practical training.

Martial arts are about self-defense, so artists should never get in a "fight". They should , however, be able to defend themselves with flawless technique.

Two guys in a cage fighting to the point of submission does not reflect a real self-defense scenario at all. It is entertaining but it is just a sport and does not represent an actual combat/self-defense situation.

Answer 10

I believe, as many people have already proposed, that training and learning is a continuum - a broad learning curve on which we all travel from novice to experienced. Where you are on that curve will determine how you view the technqiues, their application, and your ability to effectivly utilize them.

If you consider that curve in a similar way to learning a new language, the beginner must begin that journey by learning the basics in a very structrued and systematic way. As they begin to build proficiency in the basics and add new words, concepts, and vocabulary to their existing knowledge base, they can go from understanding social or business interactions to exploring more complex ideas such as composing written thoughts or perhaps shorts stories. As your knolwedge and experience progress futher through use, training, and instruction you hopefully eventually arrive at a point where you can compose poetry in this foreign language - the ultimate expression of understanding and mastery.

The martial arts continuum is somewhat the same. The drills and techniques shown and expounded in classes are prefectly valid, useful, and effective, but few students at that level will be ready, able, or capable of using them at anything approaching their full potential. As you know however, that structure is vital to provide a basis for progressive advancement, building upon that framework, to allow the student to progress beyond it, and ultimately return to it at a much later stage.

As an instructor, I always advise my new and junior instructors to watch the different groups of students as they pass through these experiential and progressive stages. The beginners who are uncoordinated, stiff, and uncertain. The intermeidates who are often overy analytical, over-powering everything, and over confident at times. The advanced studetns who begin to question what they know, what they can do, and where they are going. The junior dans who slowly begin to put it all toghether and go back to being a little uncoordinated and stiff as they are challenged with new ways to do the same things they've been doing for years. If you look, you see the cycles of learning, and hopefully you see the senior instructors who are able to apply technqiue effortlessly, effectively, and with a minimum of fuss or extraneous activity.

This is the goal we all reach for. Yes, to some degree the techniques you may be working on may not be instinctive or readily affected by you right now, but with continued practice and use, they will become so - even if not in precisely the controlled and prescribed manner they are being shown and demonstrated to you right now. The core concept of the technique is still valid and effective, and it is this that the journey should impart to you - not the deliberate and prescribed movements you undertake at the during drills.

So I'd say you are correct in one sense, and yet incorrect in another sense :) The vagaries of the jorney in the martial arts.


Ken C
9th Dan HapMoosaKi-Do
8th Dan TaeKwon-Do
7th Dan YongChul-Do