Atheists, do you really believe that something doesn't exist until it is proven/discovered?

Question

I see comments all the time like; " God doesn't exist because you can't prove he does!" in many different forms. If you agree with that then you should also agree with the following.

The Titanic was actually NOT lying on the bottom of the ocean until it was discovered.
The atom WAS the smallest particle until we found smaller.
The earth really WAS flat until we discovered that it was round.
There were in fact NO micro waves, radio waves, microscopic organisms, bacteria, viruses, or the city of Ancor Watt until people found them.

I'm sure you agree that the above are rediculous assertions. By the same logic, does that not then mean that just because God has not been (and most likely cannot) be proven, it does NOT prove definitively that there is in fact no God?

Isn't it true that the only thing lack of proof proves is that there is lack of proof? Doesn't this prove atheism to be illogical and (for people who reject faith) agnostisism the only logical alternative to religion

Laura J,

You have no idea what I believe about evolution. In fact, since I believe in an omnipotent God, I accept it as a totally plausible explanation for the creation method of the Universe.

Ms. Tausus,

With what fact do you do this? If something cannot be proven or disproven all you can say about it confidently is that oyu don't know.

The only way you can believe 100%, without a doubt that there is no God is to reach beyond existing proof to believe. That is the definition of FAITH.

Regina Philange,

I love Pheobee too. You actually resemble her with that comment since it totally fails to address my question.

OK Bluetick,

That's a fine assertion, but WHY? Would you care to support it?

So then Kenshin,

For all attempts and purposes your answer is YES? Come on now... you don't really believe that do you?

So from "your perspective" there was no such thing as gravity until Newton discovered it?

Rfitqc_A... ,

Well then my friend. You are not an atheist. You are in fact an agnostic, whether you realize it or not.

Dr. R PhD in Revolution,

Let's be honest now. You might have EVIDENCE. We too have evidence. That is why there is so much debate on here over religion. You DONOT however, have proof.

Furthermore Dr. R,

Mine is not the belief system that requires proof. According to YOUR OWN assertions yours does. You don't have it. Therefore your assurance that there is no God violates the standards of your own belief system.

Nameless,

All you did was repeat what I wrote in my initial question. What does that prove?

bete noire,

The disciples were living survivors and eye witnesses to the crusifiction and reserection. They then wrote down their accounts which were later compiled into what we today call the Bible.

You just choose to disbelieve them.

skunkgrease

I would argue that since God is infinite, even the concepts of time and space exist within the person of God. I never claimed to be able to prove to you that God exists. For myself, a person of faith, I don't believe I have to. I merely point out the logical falisy in the atheist insistance that it is impossible God exists.

Same goes for you hilarygo... and Dr What...

Paul S, Bullfighter

If you've never seen that, then you're just sticking your head in the sand. I see those arguments on here all the time.

xylocopa... and anyone else who says you can't/don't prove a negative...

If that's true please tell what the Null Hypothesis? It is used in EVERY SINGLE field of research. It is in fact the thing that you decide to accept or reject or niether. It is the basis of ALL modern research and is simply the negative restatement of the hypothesis. The null hypothesis in this situation would be;

"There is no God"

Then based on the evidence you must either accept, reject, or neither accept or reject that assertion. In the absence of proof you can niether accept nor reject.

Answer 1

"I see comments all the time like; " God doesn't exist because you can't prove he does!" in many different forms."

I've never seen anyone say that, and I've been here for quite a while. You're misreading people's comments, apparently deliberately.

The fact that there is no evidence for any gods is perfectly good reason to not believe that there are any gods (I see you get that part wrong too, by the way). As far as I've seen, no-one argues that the lack of evidence is what _causes_ there to be no gods, as you're suggesting here.

That claim that people must believe that "The Titanic was actually NOT lying on the bottom of the ocean until it was discovered." does not follow from the atheists' claim that given the lack of evidence, there's no reason to believe in any gods.

You're confusing yourself by not paying close enough attention to words.

Answer 2

The absence of evidence doesn't mean the evidence is absent. In the case of god, it takes something called "faith" to accept the existance of a creator. Regardless of what logic and reason tell you (ex: infinite regress) I'm an Atheist and I am 99% sure there isn't a creator of the universe in any kind. Much less a creator that human beings can comprehend and worship to gain favor. I reserve the 1% for the unknown but with our most valuable tool, science, we gain a better understanding in an infinite and in fact meaningless universe.

Even if I wanted to believe, I can't ignore the logic. Believers say that something can't come from nothing. That the universe must have a prime mover, a beginning and someone to throw the switch and that something is god. But if you use that logic then you must keep going. You just said that nothing can come from nothing, so where did God come from? He gave birth to himself? Unlikely. So if you use that logic then where did that god come from? Who then created that creator and so on, forever.

The only logical choice is that the universe has always been here. It was never created and we live in an infinite universe. Religion and beliefs in god try to give people a sense of purpose and meaning to life where in this awesome universe, life might very be meaningless. It happens everywhere. How we live our lives and that meaning is up to us.

Answer 3

I don't accept the existence of something without some positive supporting evidence. Be it personal experience, general information, or regorous proof. But I don't /believe/, if something is important to me, I will require a higher standard of proof before I modify my behavoir to take it into account, while if something is unimportant, I won't worry about it.

That attitue is probably hard for a believer to understand. I don't believe, I don't feel the /need/ to believe, I just need to have enough evidence/experience to be reasonably confident about what is. Not proof, not faith, just reality.

The reality is that God has never made himself known to me, and none of those who claim to be certain of his existance have ever presented me with any compelling reason to believe them. But, whether or not there's some omnicient, all-powerful being judging me is a matter of some personal importance, so, I can't just accept it, or be undecided about it.

Now, what probably is easy for a believer to understand is this: God has nothing to do with logic, and everything to do with Faith.

I have no faith, and no reason to believe in God. So I am a non-believer, an Atheist, not merely an Agnostic.

Answer 4

Your analogy is skewed.

There were pictures and photographs of the Titanic......people knew it existed. Several hundred people watched it sink and lived to tell the story.

Scientists always knew there were ways to split the atom. Research eventually led the way.

In spite of what the ignorant people believed, the earth was never flat...and more than one society on earth knew it was spherical. See Viking legend, Polynesian and Far East history.

There were always micro and radio waves, organisms, bacteria etc. It was up to science to research and bring them into current use and knowledge.

There is no need to "prove" god. There isn't one..... All of your examples made a kind of sense and were eventually proven.. The idea that some gigantic god thingie snapped everything into creation for his dalliance and pleasure to punish the bad and reward the good and wreak vengence upon those who disobey is just plain silly.

The idea that this god knows what each and everyone is thinking - all the time, every day..who knows what will happen in each and every life and who stands by and lets starvation, famine, war, disease kill millions and millions of innocents......is silly.

The idea that - if this god thingie existed - he would give a tinkers dams about who wins the football game on Saturday - or who is sleeping with who - or cares if you pass your math test....is silly.

Answer 5

I completely agree. We can't see air, so does that mean it doesn't exist? Pshhh, give me a break. Seeing isn't believing. I've never seen Jupiter, so does that mean it's just a bunch of lies and theory and fake pictures? NO. Again, seeing isnt believing. You just need to have faith to believe. No proof necessary. I don't need proof that anything exists. Just fyi, I'm not Atheist either. I am Christian, and by saying this, I will probably get a TON of thumbs down's from bitter people that absolutely hate Christians, but that's ok, because it doesn't bother me at all. I am what I am. I believe in what I believe in. I do what I want.

Answer 6

NO.

Another one who plays word games to try to make me suddenly say, "Why, good sir, you are absolutely correct! When you twist my beliefs in that direction, and even tell me what I believe, it makes perfect sense! Now, if you would please excuse me, I'll just run out and buy a Bible and join a church!"

There may well be a God. Or there may well not be a God. But to spend this lifetime worrying and fretting about what MAY be seems ridiculous.

And even if there is a God, which God is it? Allah? Zeus? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? The Earth Goddess? Or just plain God?

But really, you can't prove or disprove God. I'm merely inclined to think that such a God could not exist. If He did, we wouldn't have nearly as many physical problems and such. The fact that uteruses prolapse and how easy it is to destroy our bodies (kneecaps, backs, etc.) merely point out the evolutionary errors that still need fixing in the human race!

So have fun with your faith. But don't presume to tell me what I need to do. I already know what you think about atheists, and I don't particularly care, either.

Answer 7

We can't prove that God doesn't exist, anymore than we can prove that invisible unicorns don't exist. But we don't take either posibility seriously, for the same reason in both cases.

I must confess to being amused by the people who ask us if we can prove god doesn't exist, and when we tell them we can't, then they cry "AHA! Then you're not an atheist, you're an AGNOSTIC!" and then they do their little victory dance. That strikes me as a very small victory indeed.

Most of us don't care if you call us atheists or agnostics, as long as you don't call us late for dinner. It's religious people who are obsessed with those labels, not us.

Answer 8

No. I do not see that your conclusion follows.
Edit:
A lack of proof proves only that there is a lack of proof, say you.

My position is and has ever been that there is a lack of empirical evidence to support the hypothesis of a god or gods. I do not find it illogical to believe that in the face of this lack of empirical evidence that the hypothesis fails. Therefore there cannot even be a theory, let alone the establishment of a god or gods.

I will not go so far as to accuse you of constructing a man of straw, but as Huckleberry Finn said "it has all the earmarks".

Answer 9

The difference is that no-one was expected (or forced) to live their lives as if those things DID exist until they were found.

For instance, there was no FCC to control and regulate radio waves before those radio waves were discovered.

When God is proven, then all the things done (or banned) in the name of God may have some validity. Until then, they are rules founded on fairy tales.

Answer 10

I believe that saying that God doesn't exist because theists cannot prove he exists is a cop-out.

I don't believe that I need a God to tell me how to behave. I don't believe that there is a God that talks to people through prayer. I don't believe there is a God who cares what we do. I don't believe there is a God who decides whether my life has been good or not. For me, it is enough to live my life the best way i can for myself. I can decide for myself what is moral and what is not. I can treat people as I would be treated by others without a book telling me how to do that.