Exactly and specifically: To what extent is God in control over the affairs of mankind?

Question

Protestants owe their "heritage" to reformers like Martin Luther, who said:
"It is, then, fundamentally necessary and wholesome for Christians to know that God foreknows nothing contingently, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks 'free-will' flat, and utterly shatters it"
(Bondage of the Will, Luther's magnum opus)

Should "Protestants" who don't believe this return to Catholicism?

Or should they slip down their slippery slope from arminianism into universalism, or become a "newager", pantheist, or polytheist?

Or perhaps such "Christians" should simply reject Christianity all together and become deists, like Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine ("The Age of Reason") - what do you think?

I just don't know. Maybe they should just embrace their "practical atheism" and become full-fledged atheist!

I mean if God is not sovereign, and ABSOLUTELY sovereign, then is He God?

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Answer 1

Exactly what Primoa said-- Our free agency ( as Spurgeon called it) and God's sovereignty works together....and nobody can explain that but rest in knowing that GOD is in control and that the Bible tells us this. ( See Romans 8 and 9 and Ephesians 1)
God also tells us in Isaiah 55 that His ways are not our ways nor His thoughts our thoughts, and that His ways and thoughts are ABOVE ours.

Amen!

Answer 2

There is a wonderful passage in the introduction to 'On 'The Divine Names' and 'The Mystical Theology'' by Dionysius the Areopagite that answers this question. (I'd quote it, but it's very long.)

To Dionysius (as I understand it), God is a universal (undifferentiated) unity that is capable of extending that unity into the physical world, where it transforms into a differentiated (ununified) state so that it can relate to humans.

God in the unified state is not even considered alive, because life has its counterpart, death. So one would have to say that God is both death and life.

What I'm trying to get to in all of this is that, by Dionysius' reckoning, God does not so much control everything (because that would imply life and consciousness, which can be differentiated) so much as God IS everything. Or, at least, everything is a part of God.

So God doesn't need to control everything and therefore doesn't. In addition, 'control' is too human a concept for what God is, and therefore, the idea that God controls is invalid.

Now, I might be reading the introduction wrong, becuase parts of it are still over my head. But I will say that it makes complete sense to me, in a subconscious sort of way.

It feels right, and it puts to rest all of the niggling questions I used to have about God and religion when I was considering being an atheist, because God made no sense to me.

Answer 3

Some of you on here are incredibly naive. How can anyone in their right mind, look at all the evil people and deeds in the world, and then beleive that there is some all powerful, all-loving, God in the sky, in control of everything? If he truly was real, and loved us all the way Christians and others say, then would he allow Bush to doing what he's doing? Would he allow all the murders and plagues upon the earth. Doesn't it make sense that if God was real, and loved us all, he would indeed intervene in our lives a great deal more than people say he does.

As for humans having free will, that creates a direct conflict of interest with "God's will", how can humans have free will, yet only God's will to abide by? That doesn't make sense to me.

Answer 4

I mean if God is not sovereign, and ABSOLUTELY sovereign, then is He God?

I am absolutely sovereign in my own home. But I assure you my children have a mind of their own. The nature of this planet, the storms, the tides, the tectonic plates shifting are without a doubt in Gods control, but just as with the children of Abraham, 3000 years ago, you can put them on the right path, but only they can walk it. There are many places that they can step off. If God wanted mind numb robots he already had the angels.

Answer 5

This is why I am non-denominational. First, Luther was anti-Semitic, that alone disqualifies him in my book. Second, God looks at the entire of earth's history as one, big finished painting. It's a done deal. The rest is only left to be played out.

As for the Catholic Church, there never was a place to return. We choose according to the "now". They chose according to the "then". We will not be judged in the last day according to what denomination we were part of, but how we invested the talent (amount of revelation) that was invested for His kingdom. So I will adhere to NONE of the philosophies you have cited. Only the revelation that I gain through prayer and diligent Bible study.

Answer 6

i accept that God is sovereign. and i see that in His sovereignty, God created man with free will.

i havent heard much of what Martin Luther believed. as far as i can tell he had one revelation.. "the just shall live by faith".

i do not see that what Martin Luther said destroys free will... but rather affirms it... because he did after all.. leave catholicism.

and showed everyone that a person who loves God may follow God's word without becoming catholic.... which is what the early christians were doing before the catholic form of faith came along... as evidenced by the New Testiment epistles of the Apostles / Disciples of Jesus Christ.
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since Thanksgiving is coming up, i recall that the pilgrims fled the catholic oppression and sought freedom of faith by going to America.

it is a part of the protestant history which i am honored to be a part of... along with those early christians from the New Testiment.
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Answer 7

Completely...and at the moment, he's exercised his right to delegate the authority to us! How's this for an analogy...

God is the CEO of a company. He has a plan to rebuild the company from the bottom up so that it will operate the way he thinks it should operate. To do so, he needs to identify a group of people that share his vision and have the ability to contribute to his future goals...so he gives all of the current employees of his company various tasks to perform so he can evaluate their potential for success in the new company. ...and like any good manager, he must give them room to fail if he wants to assess their potential.

God also knows how many people he needs to implement his plan so he allows HR to continue hiring new employees under the old system so he can continue building the resource base for his new company. ...and when he has identified and set aside enough people, he will destroy the old company (and get rid of the employees that didn't fit the requirements) and build the new one with the ones he set aside!

Of course, being God, he could just start from scratch...fire everyone that works for the current company and create the people he needs to be exactly as he needs them to be for his new company. However, this is a family company...God loves us and doesn't want to fire any of us so he continues to gives us all the chance to prove ourselves!

Answer 8

God has given humanity the wisdom and the freedom to think and do whatever he wants to do. His role now is to become a detached obverser and watch His children solve the myriad of problems that come their way.
The point is the fact that one's father is a judge or an invigilator supervising an examination does not mean he will play ball and allow one to have one's way just because of the blood relations. So if your father will not stoop that low how do you expect God to play ball?
This world is that of the devil and he is dictating the pace. He is in control and God a detached observer. Since this world is the world of action we receive the fruit of whatever action we perform rightly or wrongly through our words, thoughts and deeds as well as connections.
Simply put, God is not interested in our politics and the way we do our things. As a Father of all souls He has given us all the knowledge we need to fight the battle with Satan and satanic forces whilst He remains set on His seat as a detached observer watching which of the children will use his talents and scarse resources profitably and in the interest of the larger society. To this children He gives them the kingdom and a higher status.
Having said that perhaps it is equally important to note that even though God is a detached observer, He has availed Himself to His children who know Him accurately and chit-chat with them.
Again, perhaps it is important to note that God is above religion and politics and that no religious group or sect could lay claim to Him as their bona fide property.He is neither a christian, moslem, hindu nor a buddhist and more importantly He did not inspire any of the scriptures to be written or sent anybody on earth to preach any of the gospels.
Indeed, if He wants anything done He will have to do it Himself and not through messengers.He is therefore, the Supreme Father of all Souls and His religion is that of Peace so He is not bothered what religion one subscribs to as long as one is peaceful and Godly.
However, His main concern is that we should know Him accurately as to who and what He is, To be able to know God accurately we should first and foremost know who and what we are-not just mere human beings but souls like God.

Answer 9

A person is working at a convient store. A robber comes in to rob the store and kills that person in the process. A child is kidnapped and raped by a very evil and sick person. A little dog runs out in the street and is run over by a car. And so it goes. Who's in control? Don't look like to me anyone or anything has control over this life of ours. All we know about God or God's is what we choose to believe.

Answer 10

Believers have different conceptions of God simply because our reasoning is limited by time, space and causation. In my opinion, God is in control of everything up to the point where we, as individuals and as a corporate Mankind, exercise our conscious choices. Evenso, through the transcendent power of prayer we can still petition God to intervene. It appears to me that prayer is the clue to how we may break the threshold of understanding imposed on us by these dimensions.