If god does not obey or follow the laws of physics or thermodynamics, then he cannot exist, right?

Question

Here is an ACTUAL quote from someone on this very board;
"Jesus, Who created the heavens and the earth out of nothing, can suspend or change the laws of physics or biology whenever He wants."

Um, I beg your pardon? If something is not constrained by the laws of nature, then they are, by definition, non-existent.
Matter cannot be "created" out of nothing. That is an irrefutable fact. Anyone who still believes this sort of patent nonsense is suffering from the same childish delusions that lead children to believe that Santa can come down a chimney with a never ending bag of toys every Xmas.
Honestly people, grow up please. My kids figgured out that Santa wasn't real by the time they were 7. Why can't you?

Cosmo,
This isn't "Star Trek" you know...
Yeah, you're a physicist and I'm Carlos Santana...

Forever,
I'm glad you used the word Science in quotes because whoever wrote that page never once set foot in a science class.
Laughable nonsense.

Art,
Yes I know I quoted you. It was the dumbest quote I could find on the subject.
And your further explanation smacks of "but Santa CAN do it dad! He has MAGIC reindeer!"
LOL.

Answer 1

It's even worse than that!

God doesn't (can't) even obey the laws of logic! Even in the realm of pure thought, where all kinds of imaginings can obtain, thinking about God is like thinking about empty space...it just can't be done!!
Some examples: God is omniscient. People have free will.
God is one. God is also Three.
God is his own Father and his own Son.
God is mortal and immortal.
These statements are tantamount to saying that a thing both exists and does not exist at the same time.
If God could learn to follow basic, ontological rules, then maybe, one day, we could get him to follow physical laws. Right now the suspension of physical laws is the least of our worries.
Wow, oldschool, your god doesn't take any crap from anybody (lol).

Answer 2

I'm agnostic about the existence of God, but I've never heard from any scientist that the laws of thermodynamics make it impossible for God to exist. If the laws of thermodynamics are correct, the very long term future of the universe is fairly bleak, and I suppose you can read this as ruling out certain kinds of happy religious outcomes. But that's over the long term, and anyway the Thermodynamic Law that suggests the universe will eventually end in total entropy & disorder -- the Second Law -- is only about 180 years old, and was originally based on someone's observation of the way heat energy behaves in closed systems, such as steam engines. I believe that the physicists are extrapolating mightily in their assumptions that because the 2nd law applies in even the best-designed steam engine, it therefore "must" apply to the cosmos as a whole. That's a BIG extraploation. I assume that the physicists are probably right, but really, nobody knows for certain. There are various other arguments to be made for & against God's existence, and some are pretty impressive, depending on your perspective. I've seen people make some pretty convincing arguments for atheism, or at least against all of the common religious orthodoxies. But I think the Thermodynamic argument for atheism is speculative, at best. Presumably if God exists and is Lord over all the laws of nature, God could repeal or modify the thermodynamic laws if need be.

Answer 3

God created the cosmic code. Maybe not in the way most religious people think. But He did. In my opinion, He follows natural laws because He is a Creator not a magician. Even the seemingly miraculous may be explained scientifically if only we have the science in our hands. Is a subatomis particle solid? Isn't it just a force-field of some sort that occupies space? What is this energy that creates this force-field? Could it be the thoughts, the "Word" of God? Hard to tell either way. Our logic is restricted within the dimensions of time, space and causation. We are yet to break that treshold. Perhaps things like Quantum Physics can help. Having observed prayer-healers and spiritual healers, I am prone to believe that there is indeed a divine energy from someone who is powerful and intelligent enough to have a conscious personality. God. To be religious does not necessarily mean to be bound by the limitations of Sunday School. Likewise, scientists must also give themselves room for new insight.

Answer 4

Please explain where matter came from? Science declares the universe; all matter, came into being 13.5 billion years ago in what is commonly called the "Big Bang".

And if there is a God who created matter from "nothing" (which is not entirely true, seeing as we now know matter and energy are related) then why would it not be possible for the creator of matter and the physics under which they operate to circumvent those physics when it suits him?

And if you are intent on dodging this question above, then perhaps you can explain how life arose from that which was not life, and how sexual reproduction began, seeing as the evolutionary model is dependent upon asexual reproduction. How did two living organisms decide to share half their dna in order to reproduce, eh?

.

Answer 5

You would prefer a scientific answer?
According to Quantum Physics there are 10+1 dimensions. You know of 4. God could be at 10. For that matter God could be at +1. The eleventh dimension is not stacked on the other 10. Its one which must exist for balance and the laws of physics and thermodynamics do not apply there.
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/quantum-world/mg15320654.500

By the way, the new universe theory that replaces the big bang is also interesting. It provides possible answers for many religious, parapsychic, paranormal questions. Or at least some very interesting new directions to theorize in. Im afraid that all of the old pat answers are kindof on hold right now.

Answer 6

I'm the guy you just quoted.

And the "definition" you just invented is wrong.

God invented the laws of Science and He can suspend them any time He wants to.

That is how God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

That is how Jesus was able to speak to a storm and His disciples marveled that even the wind and waves obeyed Him.

See Matthew chapter 8:

25The disciples went and woke him, saying, "Lord, save us! We're going to drown!"

26He replied, "You of little faith, why are you so afraid?" Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.

27The men were amazed and asked, "What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!"

That is how Jesus healed the man born blind, raised three people back to life who were dead and how God raised Jesus back to life three days after Jesus was executed on a Roman Cross.

God Bless You

Pastor Art

Answer 7

the bible clearly says that we will never even be able to find out or explain everything in this world.

Ecclesiastes 8:17 And I saw all the work of the [true] God, how mankind are not able to find out the work that has been done under the sun; however much mankind keep working hard to seek, yet they do not find out. And even if they should say they are wise enough to know, they would be unable to find out.

how do you explain the perfect setting of the earth?
if we were as much as an inch closer or further from the sun it would be inhabitable. how do you explain the universe in general?

what your saying is "by definition" hes non-exsistent... who made up 'dictionarys?' man did.

Psalm 10:4 The wicked one according to his superciliousness makes no search;
All his ideas are: “There is no God.”

Answer 8

We really don't know where the "laws of physics" come from, and what their range of validity might be.

Some of the laws of physics seem to come directly from mathematics (requirements of symmetry, for example) but where does mathematics come from? Could God make 2+2=5? Is that even possible?

BTW, matter can be made out of energy, and energy can be "made" by separating positive and negative energies. It seems likely that the total energy content of the Universe is zero, so in fact the whole Universe could possibly originate out of "nothing".

Although the vacuum in current physics is actually very complex, containing as it does all the various particle fields (even if they are not excited).

Answer 9

How many times do I have to say it? God (Supreme Being) is not held accountable to man. God doesn't have to prove anything to anybody. Nor does he have to explain himself for why he does things. God is the one that made those laws and if he so chooses, he'll change them. He is the one that created you, he can also break you at the snap of his fingers and he doesn't need your permission.

Answer 10

May I suggest you give this book a read-through? The site below is in PDF format so you don't need to leave your chair or spend any money to get your hands on it.... it is a book about many of the questions/statements that Atheists and scientists make about the Bible and God....and ....uses "science" to explain those questions/statements. If anything, it will give you a basis to continue your own research into "proving" God does not exist. :)

http://fool4given.com/books/301proofs.pdf