Atheists: Do you completely discount the testimonies of millions of Christians throughout history?

Question

You keep asking for proof, but when Christians share our testimonies about how God has changed our lives or how He has intervened in trying times, you completely discount those testimonies. Do you REALLY believe that millions of Christians throughout history just imagined the things that God has done for us? Aren't there too many of these testimonies to completely discount them? You accuse Christians of being close minded, refusing to accept proof of evolution, but aren't you doing the same thing to the proof that we offer?

Don H: I don't hate or even dislike atheists nor do I judge them. I am simply trying to learn what they feel or believe about the testimonies of millions or billions of others...actual experiences or mass delusions spanning thousands of years.

Beevis Christ: Buddha is not a god, he was a man that tought a philosophy of life. Don't know of anyone that claims to have been effected or changed by Zeus or Thor. Couldn't you choose better gods to make your case?

Panglosswasright: No, I don't. I don't discount the claims of anyone in regards to their god or God. I have been shown evidence of miracles claimed to be of Allah, but they were all images of his name found in natural settings. I have not heard of healings, spontaneous life transformations, etc being attributed to Allah. If I ever did, I would accept them as truth since I believe that even demons (or other gods) can effect us and our lives.

Juexue: Yes, I believe that Buddhism changed your life, but that is aphilosophy, not a religion. You do not call upon Buddha to intervene in your life, you try to apply his approach to life to your life. People that believe in God actually ask for Him to intervene and see results.

Lazeruslong138: I agree with you 100%, you should determine our faith by our actions, as long as you do not expect us to be perfect and without sin. Remember, we are saved but that doesn't mean we are FREE from sin, just forgiven. I try my hardest to live up to God's standards, but it is impossible. THAT is why He came down to earth and took on our sin, so we could be forgiven.

Answer 1

It is actually billions of christians.

Evolution has nothing to do with being an atheist, atheist is just a person who did not believe in the existence of supreme creature(s). There are some atheists who do not believe in evolution too.

Being closed minded and having blind faith are two different thing. Read up.

Could you perhaps show ONE real instance which this imaginary creature intervened? Like, showing his face?

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You claim someone had ask your god for intervention and get result, other then placebo effect, I don't see any result.

Answer 2

Well, that's a hard call to make. Most Christians don't believe in Joseph Smiths teachings (LDS/Mormonism) even though he claimed to have an experience where God changed his life. And millions, if not billions, have "felt" the presence of other Gods in their lives. I'm sure a Muslim person could share testimonies about Allah, etc. So basically you're only choosing the testimonies you agree with, instead of taking all religious testimonies as a whole.

Argumentum ad numerum (argument or appeal to numbers). This fallacy is the attempt to prove something by showing how many people think that it's true. But no matter how many people believe something, that doesn't necessarily make it true or right.

Argumentum ad populum (argument or appeal to the public). This is the logical fallacy of trying to prove something by showing that the public agrees with you.

Answer 3

Certainly not - if you testify that Christianity has changed your life I sincerely believe that Christianity (or your concepts about, or your faith in Christianity) has changed your life. I hope it changed to the better.

In the same way I believe Muslims who say that Islam has changed their lives, Hindus who say that Hinduism did, Taoists, Sikhs, Jainists, Zoroastrians, and so on.

For me, Christianity didn't change my life to the better in a tangible way, so I changed to a religion that really did: Buddhism. You may believe me or not - that's totally up to you! :)



Edit to your comment: Yes, that's exactly why it DID change my life. I was a practising Christian for many years, even teaching the Christian faith in Church, but I found it didn't change my life substantially (it was nice and cosy, but didn't make me a [much] better person). So, instead of asking someone to change my life I decided to do it myself, and that turned out to be a very successful decision. I have the greatest respect for Christianity's (and other religions') capacity to make real changes to people, but it simply wasn't the way for me. I haven't regretted this decision for a single moment ever since (which means about ten years). Suddenly I found a system that not only teach you how you should be (loving, compassionate, generous, patient, and so on) and that you just pray and wait for this to happen, but actually gave me rational explanations WHY these qualities makes the life better, WHY egoism doesn't help me get what I want, and HOW you work with your mind to actually become more loving, compassionate, generous, and so on.

Of course I have a long way to go with this work, but I'm fully confident I'm on the road, and now I have the tools to make every single situation in life meaningful and a part of the way towards being able to help everyone realize ultimate happiness and be free from suffering. For me, God wasn't the answer. If God is your answer, sure you should stick to your way! :)

Answer 4

Well no offense but Christians discount the testimonies of thousands and millions of people across the world who aren't Christian and they discount thousands of years worth of pagan worship as not real, even though the entire world believed it far longer then Christianity has even been around. If OUR proof isn't good enough for you, what makes you think YOUR proof is good enough for them?
edit: For the record, you have now met someone whose life has indeed been changed by Thor. I am Heathen, as in I follow the Norse gods of old, the gods of my bloodlines and my ancestors. I've had many awesome experiences with the gods that have changed my life for the better COMPLETLY. Don't jump to conclusions.

Answer 5

With all due respect, testimonies are not considered to be any kind of proof. Throughout history, people have said a lot of very strange things. Seeing the Loch Ness Monster, talking to God, alien abductions, etc.

Thousands of people have claimed to be the son of God, even before Jesus was alive.

Just because people believe in something, doesn't make it real.

Answer 6

I don't discount them, but I give them the same value as you would a story of mine about interaction with fairies, for example. Or the night I met the guy who claimed to be Johnny Cash (albiet Cash had been dead for weeks at that point).

They are antecdotes, persoanl stories about how religion personally affected them. There is and never will be a guarantee that my stories regarding religion would be even remotely the same, that I would have the same experiences.

And guess what? I didn't have the same experiences as other Christians, other Atheists, other Agnostics or other pagans. And no one should ever expect it to be so.

Completely discount? No. No one's experience should be completely dismissed; it's part of what makes them them. But take them as yet another interesting story without any real bearing on me or merit in my life? Yes.

BTW? Thank you Don, I honestly appreciate that viewpoint.

Answer 7

It's funny how many people say that their deity speaks to them, but frankly are vague on the specifics of the communication.

I get the feeling that a lot, perhaps all of it, may just be going on in people's heads - they have an experience, yes, but then interpret it according to what they have been told about religion. Notice that in non-Western cultures, the gods who others describe as touching *their* lives is not the Biblical deity. In other words, I think that spiritual experiences are subject to interpretation. And that people interpret according to what's culturally prominent.

This is one of the things that led me to Taoism, in fact. It occurred to me that the whole word is interpreting the spiritual their own way, which told me something was there but was much more abstract than people thought, so focused are they on defining what might very well be undefinable.

Answer 8

They ignore testimonies of Christians in the same way Christians ignore testimonies of people of other beliefs. Testimonies are not Evidence. Evolution comes from Scientific Evidence... observable evidence. No one can observe your God doing something for you.

That street goes 2 ways and the sooner you stop to realize that, the sooner you'll understand why Atheists don't believe. I forget who said it (and I'm sure someone will post the name), but it was once said that the only difference between you and an Atheist is they believe in one less God than you do.

Answer 9

Well let's say a person who has been down on their luck, and started to pray to God and going to church. And because of this they have a new outlook on life and is now a more productive person in society. I would certainly hope that an atheist wouldn't come along and tell them that everything that they thought was a factor in their transformation is a lie.

Crazy testimonies, don't just come from the religious stand point. Many people believe that a new scientific discovery will cure them of things, that are incurable.

Answer 10

The testamonies of Christians tell me that moving and even miraculous things have probably happened to them - I'm not of the opinion that all the Christians in the world are just crazy or lying. But that doesn't prove that they are correct. It's all still hearsay. That someone had a vision of what they identified as Jesus does not prove that Jesus is divine or that Jesus is needed for salvation or any number of other claims.