Women submissive to Men?

Question

What's your point of reference and why?

It is well known that males are dominant in many, and in all most populous present day societies, but that is a historical result of last 500 years of European military expansion and extermination of native cultures. Native cultures, of which most were not sexually dichotomized nor oppressive to either sex.....

Early Europeans in this area worshipped earth goddesses under many names; for example, Pandora, Athena, Aphrodite, Artemis, and Hera. However, no matter which name was used, the earth goddess was worshipped in order to assure the human family health, prosperity, and fertility in personal and in agricultural terms.

By 2100 B.C., aggressive patriarchal tribes worshipping a supreme male god who was a father-figure or a successful warrior had begun to invade many matriarchal communities. They brought with them a new social and political order in which males dominated.

For those of you who overlooked the first line of the question:

What Is Your Point Of Reference And Why?

Answer 1

I am a product of the era into which I was born, which is patriarchal but is seeing signs of change to a more equal level. Changes happen slowly and painfully. My point of reference is three fold, by considering the past, changing the present when I can and when it is a good idea to do so, and hope for the future, hope that patriarchy dies and never returns. My personal point of reference is myself and my beliefs as a pagan and as a Witch, and as a feminist. I am not in a submissive relationship with my husband. We don't have exactly the same roles in our marriage, but we have equal value in accomplishing mutual goals together.

Submissive? Not ever! Not me.

Blessings,
Lady Morgana )0(

Answer 2

It is mainstream belief that - at an average - men should be dominant and women submissive. So a woman should accept her husband as head of the family, take his last name in the marriage, do most of the housework and raise the children, and if she is working - earn less than her man, need his protection and be his bottom in the bedroom. Women like this steadily strengthen the strucutures of patriarchy. They are dream women of anti-feminist men. And if they cannot find them, they are "importing" such women from East Europe, Thailand or the Philippines. (I don´t want to abuse women from there, but they come from different family traditions.) Imagine how things would be if women were in control ! Which could well be our future 50 or maybe even 25 years from now. All these expectations would be just the other way round. At an average women would be expected to be dominant, and men to be submissive, the weaker sex (perhaps the "fair" one, wearing skirts and dresses, with their women wearing the pants?). A horror vision for all these anti-feminists ! So they consider every submissive male as a prototype of such a society they would never want to come true, supported by their adaptable wives and partners who would rather like things to remain as they are. Truly: these women are main obstacles for the wind of change, impeding the endeavors of confident and assertive, feminist women. I would like that wind of change to become much stronger. Feminist women have to give some private lessons to their sisters, and feminist men such lessons to their male contemporaries. We have to continue the good work, despite all whining and complaints in GWS messages and elsewhere.

Answer 3

Matriarchal societies are, for the most part, a myth. The fact that there were goddesses doesn't make any society matriarchal. That having been said, what's your question again? Should women be submissive to men? Of course not and neither should me submissive to women. It's about submission, not so much about sex.

Answer 4

It's meant to be protection not rejection of women as far as the bible direction on this subject. there has to be an order to things.......Ideal situation being the Man is seaking God (his head) and the woman seeks her husband for direction and the children seek out the mother in most cases. I have no problem with it. It wears a person out trying to be household manager and leader of all (everything). Don't you think?

Answer 5

"Abrahamic religions?" Very puzzling. Goddess worship - result of mans jealousy/anger? Very, very puzzling.

Where is this proof that patriarchal societies were jealous, angry males? Matriarchal societies are the same! Some women can be just as jealous, angry, power hungry as any man. Aggressive women and men have discredited, demeaned and damaged the opposite sex. We have a sick society - men and women abuse each other and it seems to stem from psychological masturbation.

Christianity (supposedly patriarchal) is accused of 'stealing' from pagan worship. A number of god/goddess concepts were 'lifted' from the Bible. Seth, Adam/Eve's third son, who supposedly 'speaks' although he is dead as a doornail.

Lilith, the 'supposed 2nd wife of Adam" was never named or mentioned in the Bible; however followers of Lilith claim the screech owl in Isaiah 34:14 is the Biblical reference to Lilith. 'She' is a feminist 'goddess' of a matriarchal society - but lifted from a supposed 'patriarchal' society. This is a joke.

Pagan gods and goddesses are multiple representations of human attributes. The Judeo-Christian God created us in his glorious image. We don't worship human characteristics, we worship as whole beings the God of wholeness.

The Bible mention of female submission as an invite for male abuse it never intimated. Men and women with psychological damage in relationships with the opposite sex often interpret it as permission for masochistic behavior. Just another misplaced blame and escape from personal responsibility.

Eph. 5:25 clearly commands a husband to love his wife as Christ loved the church AND GAVE HIMSELF (HIS LIFE) FOR IT. Vs 28 says men ought to love their wives as their own bodies, he that loveth his wife loveth himself. Vs. 31 says a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife as one flesh.

As for the Bible 'lifting' pagan practices it has never mentioned any 'gods' and certainly none born from the leg of a man.

Ephesians 5: 1-21 are commands for followers of Christ and their relationship to Him. It does not reference marriage relationship. That is dealt with from vs. 22-31.

One belief pays homage to the underworld, the darkness and the dead. The other loves life and the Living God.

If there is any doubt that the Christian Jesus loved any less than a woman please read Matt. 23: 37 where he bemoans the inhabitants of Jerusalem's murderous behavior and how often he would have 'gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings". One cannot dispute the fact that God loved women with Divine Love otherwise he would never have made such a statement.

Answer 6

Before the advent of the Abrahamic religions, there was goddess worship. The Divine Feminine was simply accepted as natural and normal.

However, women were also given a heigher priority than men since the woman were what continued the human race by giving birth to new human beings.

Imagine millenia where women were in control.

Men were jealous and angry so they created the Abrahamic religions that relegated women to a submissive role while claiming that was their rightful place and that their god was all loving and all caring.

In other words, it was jealous men that did it.

We need to move past this crap and start learning not to force others into submission through such tactics.

Answer 7

For
Learn about the one true God.

Your response is very well. I appreciate it. God gives wisdom to those who believes in One True God.

Your view is same of Islam. Jesus represented God like Abraham, Moses and Mohammad did. It was same religion that they all preached and not a different religions at all. It is the stupid people who change message of each Prophet and make them look like different to elevate their's to say is the best.

Islam explains that in the eyes of God man and woman are equal and best is the one who is closer to God spirituality by his/her devotion, obeydience to God, prayers and glorifying God. When a man asked Prophet Mohammad ' what should I do to deserve heaven''. Prophet replied, "Serve your mother", he preated same question three times and each time Prophet replied "serve your mother" and fourth time he said "serve your father also". Prophet elevated the status of mother three times higher than that of father, for the love she gives to her child and the pains she goes through carrying, delivering, breast feeding and caring the child in infancy.

There are no child custody fights in courts of Muslim countries for the reason that Allah and His Prophet made a law that children must be left with mother for 10 years (girls) and 12 years boys and husband must pay the expenses to mother ro raise them. And then at age 10 girl must be sent back to father, grand father or father's brother to be raised and protected from possible molestation by the step father (if married is remarried). Also Islam says that the financial responsibility for raising children are of father financially. Their weddings and further education is always responsibility of father and his family members. Both children needs love of mother for first 10 to 12 years and after that girl needs to learn to male figure loving and caring for father to become a woman. The son needs to learn to love father and other fellow humans, learn religion and how to make a living from his father. .
All Muslim countries follow the divine laws (made by Allah or His Messenger) and most Muslims follow them strictly. Mothers never insist that the children are her property and never fight for custory after they reach age 10 (girl) and 12 (Boy). Untill that age fathers never take children away from mothers even if they are divorced. Fathers know that the love mothers can give, they can not give. So law puts the burden of expenses on father to raise children. Children need both mother and father to grow up under their care.

Answer 8

Plain and simple... The Bible says that women are to be submissive to her husband. It is black and white, nothing in between. Does it mean he dominants us? Do they beat you when things go wrong? No, he handles us with love, as he would his own body. When have you ever known a man to beat his own body? Men are supposed to follow Jesus example. Did Jesus go around yelling at his disciples? Did he go around beating them if they did something that was not right? No, he loving corrected them. When the final decision is to be made in the household, it is the husbands responsiblity. The man of the house, the husbands also have someone to be in subjection to... The Bible says they are in subjection to Jesus, and Jesus to his Father, Jehovah.

Update~~~~
My point of reference is the Bible.. The reason why is because it is the word of God, Jehovah. That is the most important reason, don't YOU agree?

Answer 9

Yeah, what the Madman said.

Answer 10

and your point is more than obvious.
Industrialism and agriculture also have alot to do with women and submission to men.