If you don't loan money to someone without credit/collateral, why subscribe to a religion without proof?

Question

If you're going to answer, please don't give me any statements about the dead sea scrolls or noah's ark. It was just some old paper and they never found the boat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Searches_for_Noah%27s_Ark

For everyone who uses "faith" as their wild card, it is clearly obvious that faith is based on the power of denial. You're denying logic to subscribe to your superstitions.

In regards to what "Dust ~" wrote :

Even your Christ had quite a different vision, but based on your answer of telling a complete stranger to go to hell I would say even you don't pay much attention to him. Are you really going to heaven? Or should I say "your heaven" ?

In regards to what "lilmissykato" wrote :

You can't feel your religion. That's just more of your denial telling your conscience to shut up.

In regards to what "martinlh" wrote :

Do you buy all your stuff from swap meets and gypsies? What do you buy that has no backup on it? You buy shoes from Footlocker and if they don't fit you take them back or exchange them. You go to the Olive Garden to eat and if the food takes too long to make someone like “lauren rosee” will bitc_ to the manager and get a free meal. You buy a Lexus and it comes bundled with warranties, or you can sell the car and get at least something back.

So if what you say is such a truism then I guess I should just put my house up for sale, sell my car and all my T-Bonds, and give all the money to some building with stain glass windows and a cross on the roof and as you said “just trust everything will work out in the end”. Oh, but before that I should put a little money aside to buy a nice shiny gold chain with Christ on it to wear around my neck, that way everyone knows that I’m a good Christian.

In regards to what "Cylon Betty" wrote :

You're either extremely independently wealthy or brokeas_ dirt poor. And I think it's safe to say you only "loan" money to your family and your close, close, close friends. If you're "fellow man", a stranger asked if you could "loan" him money I'm quite sure you would either refuse or at least require him to sign something to secure the "gift".

In regards to what “martinlh” wrote later :

Those dollar bills that you are referring to as unsecured useless play-money are the only reasons you are able to eat everyday. If you’re going to run with the idea of spending U.S. dollars as being just as secure as unwittingly praying to a deity, then why don’t you hold your bible and pray to your Christ for your mortgage and car lease to just pay itself on its own? Yes, money is worth something because every merchant and every consumer declared a price and demand for everything, and money was everyone’s answer, even for a spiritual man like yourself. Yes, I believed them when they told me the money was worth something, and other people also believed me when I used that same money to buy my M5, my house, and a $110 sushi dinner from last night. (continued)

Until the day comes when we can just share everything with each other, not ride in cars anymore, not talk on our cell phones anymore, or eat, you won’t be able to say that money is something on our planet that is unsecured. If money is so unsecured then why do you wake up every morning at 8 to work for someone else?

In regards to what “mageta8” wrote :

When did I say I hated anyone? Who did I say I hate? I don’t hate anyone, and I don’t make fun of anyone but if someone talks shi_ to me I will be the first to return it back to them, which is what I have done here.

In fact, now that you bring up the subject of hate, I would like to point out that there are several Christian groups that take pride in disfellowshipping its members based on those individuals breaking one or more of the religion’s superstitious policies. Even your bible says that homosexuals will not inherit the planet or go to heaven. And for the record I am a straight person, so please don’t go and try to condemn me on those grounds. (continued)

And it’s not just on sexual orientation, any Jehovah’s Witnesses reading this will agree with me when I say that the JW’s are known for cutting off all others connected with them who are unwilling to join or continue practicing their religion, even family members. Anyone who refuses to be a JW but who you must see on a regular basis anyway because of work, school, etc., the JW’s tell you to treat those other people like tax collectors. Yeah, they also have a strong distaste for governments. The ones that live in the United States are experiencing life in the best place on the planet, mainly because of our government and judicial system, and yet they preach on about how you shouldn’t vote or run for any kind of office, or stand during the National Anthem at Red Sox’s games. If those Jehovah’s Witnesses want to see how awful some other governments are they should try moving to Mexico or some other third world country where the police are the biggest crooks in the city. (continued)

I don’t know if you would interpret all of this as hate or not, hate to you may just be talking shi_ to people who are asking for it, it may not necessarily include shunning a person and making them feel less than human because they have a taste for the same sex or are a little uncomfortable with the idea of the blind leading the blind.

“mageta8”, you said there is proof out there that your beliefs exist and are true? Well spit it out, I want to hear it. Seriously, tell me and everyone else here in detail, with scientific proof, how your bible and your Christ all happened and are going to save the world. And make sure you explain how the dinosaurs and their fossils fit into the picture, and if you have time can you go to this link and explain how this fits into the bible, or should I say how the bible fits into this :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_%28genus%29

(continued)

"mageta8", when did I say there was no God?

In regards to the third response by “martinlh” :

When you say “if the U.S. died today and became another country”, if you’re implying if the United States government were to be overthrown by another country or countries I think anyone who reads this would agree that the president of the United States would order the military to bring out the nukes and the H-bomb before anyone else came even remotely close to taking over. I think you’re taking the whole “money is not real” theory a little out of its element. Yes, money is actually paper and coin, we just call it money because we place a value on it for other monetary goods and services. And yes, if the United States were to be overthrown by another country or countries the defeating party would probably declare our former economic system obsolete at which point our money would become the useless, unreal object you claim it is.

(continued)
But in reality, actual reality as of now, the United States is not going to be annihilated by anyone else, so you and I are still going to strive everyday to earn what money we can.

(continued)
Your “logic” of the realness and truth of your religion is based on all your good fortune regarding your job and your health. If you thank God for getting a better job and recovering from sickness then who do you blame for getting laid off from work and infected with herpes, Satan? You say that you pray and get your prayers answered, well what about the overweight unattractive girls who pray to be physically transformed into supermodels? What about starving children who pray for food? Why doesn’t God answer the prayers of amputees who want to have their legs and arms grow back so they can walk and do things again? What about sexually abused children who pray for no one to come into their rooms at night? Does God only answer your prayers, and if so, then why don’t you do us all a favor and pray for a cure for AIDS.

(continued)
“There is even proof of faith: comfort, security, peace, and love. They are all intangible, but so is faith.”

We are comfortable and secure if we have money to pay for a roof over our heads and put locks on our doors. Why don’t you try living in an alley in the street for a night and see how much comfort and security your faith alone brings you. Peace? Look around you, why are there men and women in the military wearing dog tags around their neck that say they are Catholic and at the same time they have weapons in both hands. Love? I think everyone has their own interpretation of this, but if yours is based on religion I would say you have many more issues then just arguing that money is not real.

(continued)
Yes I am well aware that religion is the cause of those 4000 years of bloodshed. As far as those wars and justifiable murders meaning anything, I don’t know. I do know that the Vietnam War didn’t have much purpose, and yet it was backed by so many eager high school graduates who ran to the recruiting offices to sign up to be shipped off into the jungle. And here I thought we needed to firebomb in order to start a war, but we could have just used religion the whole time.

I can’t believe you are childishly comparing the laws of physics to substantiate for the truth in your beliefs. Just to remind you, the sun will one day no longer rise after it sets for the last time, and for more than one reason your body may become so weak that you will not be able to heal from the flu after catching it, and you’re going to have to replace all of your light bulbs eventually after each one burns out.

(continued)
You trust years of history? I have to tell you I was pretty let down when I learned that Christopher Columbus enslaved so many of the people from the very land that he “discovered”.

(continued)
The schools, teachers, and classroom textbooks omit those details when they educate the students about the illustrious person they believe him to be.

In regards to what “ice_elementai” wrote :

If money is so ridiculous to you then why do you spend all your time fighting for the table scraps that you have?

You think that just believing in your superstitions is going to buy you an all-access pass into your heaven? Well then I suggest you go to your local church and throw some money in the basket, that will definitely increase your chances.

If it all does exist then explain it to me, and like I asked “mageta8” earlier, please tell me and everyone else here in detail, with scientific proof, how your bible and your Christ all happened and are going to save the world. And make sure you explain how the dinosaurs and their fossils fit into the picture, and if you have time can you go to this link and explain how this fits into the bible, or should I say how the bible fits into this :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_%28genus%29

Answer 1

exactly! when i have asked men of the cloth to explain where the dinosaurs fit in they shut up. i said you have proof there was dinosaurs because we have their bones and fossils,, can you show me something from the bible other than THE bible? i thought adam and eve was first but dinosaurs was supposed to be before man. then they died off then man. the bible was written by a man and whos to say that person wasnt schitzo hearing voices? its a book of stories written by a person. i dont doubt we are a miracle but as the saying goes the proof is in the pudding! show me some!
and when it goes to religion.. i also wonder sometimes that if there is a GOD maybe it isnt HOW you worship its the end result of that you CHOSE to follow,, in other words there is no right or wrong religion the end result is the same. just like there are many names for santa clause there is many names for Jesus in different cultures... points to ponder!

Answer 2

You can't compare the standards of the world against the standards of God. By worldly measure, choosing to whom you lend is based upon the best possibility of a good return on your investment.

You see, God teaches in His Word that if we lend to the poor, then we are not to become their debtor (i.e., demand repayment) nor charge them any interest even if they do decide to pay it back (Exodus 22:25; Leviticus 25:35-37; Deuteronomy 15:7-15; 23:19; Luke 6:34-36). So, I'd say there is good precedent for accepting a religion based on the Bible without the kind of proof on which the world would look with favor.

Answer 3

For the same reason you purchase stuff with money which has no backup of gold or silver. You just trust everything will work out in the end.

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Added later:

Yes, you should sell everything by your own definition. Sure the products have backups in place. I'm talking about the money itself. It has no backup.

Let me enlighten you: originally, only goods were traded. But later on, gold and silver were used to exchange for goods due to their value. However, traveling with a wagon load of gold is very dangerous so people started issuing notes where people could deposit their gold, carry a note and exchange the note for gold at their destination (hence the invention of banks and dollar bills).

Our money (especially the US) does not have gold backing it up. Look at the dollar bill and it says: "Federal Reserve Note." In other words, it is lent to you to use for all trade and purchases until at such time there is a run on the banks at which time the note can be traded in for gold or silver.

Our money no longer has that gold or silver available. Using our money to purchase stuff is like trusting the government to secure all your debts. Unfortunately, bankruptcy also does not work this way.

Using the monetary system set up by the US government is just as secure as unwittingly praying to a deity. It's only worth anything because someone told you it is, and you believed them.

And by the way, in my church we don't wear crosses.

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Third Responce:

If money is so secure, what happened to the Confederate money when the Confederacy lost the war? Their money became useless because it had no backing. They used their money the same as we do today. The same would happen if the US died today and became another country. All paper, and some coin money would suddenly become useless.

Just because people use money, like money, and work for money, doesn't make it real. It just makes it a reality for our society.

Using the same "logic" as you like to use I believe in God because I tried the word and found it to be real, not just a reality. I paid my tithing and got more money in return. I prayed and got my prayers answered. I refused to work on the Sabbath and got better job opportunities. I've seen a person healed and have been personally healed instantly from the laying on of hands of an Elder. I've read the prophecies of prophets old and new and watched as those prophecies were fulfilled. Many claim to have seen God Himself. I believe them.

What do you mean there is no proof? There's lots of proof, some of it even tangible.

There is even proof of faith: comfort, security, peace, and love. They are all intangible, but so is faith.

Money only lasts as long as the nation does. But I dare say you are right pompous to assume that 4000 years of fighting over the Holy Land is due only to people's denial of the truth. Those wars are real and there's evidence of those. Don't you suppose they mean something? If they don't, then those who claim there is no God must be the only intelligent beings on the Earth and 7000 years of history have been wasted to people's dreamings of a future which will not happen.

I have faith in other things too: the sun will rise tomorrow, I will heal from the flu when I catch it, my lights will come on when I flip the switch. There is no evidence of these things, but years of history tell me that tomorrow will happen just as they tell me there is a God.

__________
Just a note: I'm not trying to get you all riled up, I think it's fun to have these kinds of conversations. It's always refreshing to see the world through someone else's mind. I just wonder how you're going to choose a best answer from all of this!

Answer 4

If I loan someone money, I don't actually consider it a loan. I consider it a gift, and if they pay me back, I'm pleasantly surprised. I'm glad to say that most times, I am pleasantly surprised. I also don't charge interest to help someone out of a bind.

So, if I can have that sort of faith in my fellow man, why would I not give that and more to my God?

*edit*

Actually, I'm neither extremely wealthy nor poor, I'm comfortable. As to lending money to complete strangers, I can honestly say that I have done that numerous times. I'm glad to say that most of those people paid me back, although it took some of them quite a while to do so. I never asked for the money back, but they did so when they could afford to. And, just so you know, I lent the money to people regardless of whether they were Christian or not. To me, having money isn't the end goal, money is just a tool to be used to help others.

Answer 5

You have nothing to lose with God. And he doesn't want your material possessions.

Why do you have so much hate for people? You are entitled to your opinion but so is everyone else. Why ask a question when all you do is bash everyone? It's clear that even the most religiously inspirational person couldn't convince you that there is a God so why waist your 5 points asking questions like this? There is proof out there, you just refuse to believe it...and that's fine, it's your opinion but don't make fun of the people that do believe. Life is too short, live it to the fullest and enjoy every waking moment you have. Don't waist your time making fun of others...it's not worth it.

Answer 6

Actually that "old paper" is real and true. And "that boat" has been found. It was found near Mt. Arat why it is not exactly on top is because of erosion it has caused the ark to slide down the mountain. You may ask why the scientist haven't shown it they would have to say that they were wrong. What do believe in and why do you believe in it? Do you reject the truth because you don't want to admit that you can never be good enough? Or because of some stupid reason. Look at your reasons why. Still believe that way bring it!

Answer 7

That depends on how you define religion. My definition of religion, simplified, is "one person's personal relationship with God". Under that definition or even a similar generic definition such as "a system of beliefs regarding God and existence" you could not believe in God without subscribing to religion. On the other hand, if you meant "organized religion", then absolutely you can believe in God without subscribing to any organized religion. God does not require any particular membership in any organization, nor does he require one to perform any rituals or speak certain words. All he wants is a relationship with each one of us, his children. Just as a good human parent's love is unconditional, so is God's, despite what many organized religions may try to teach you.

Answer 8

Your argument only has value if believing in God requires you to give up something now that you want to be returned with interest in the future.

If I loan someone $1,000, I expect them to pay me back $1,000 plus interest sometime in the future...thus, it makes sense to either check their credit history to see if they pay back their debts or to require them to give me temporary ownership (title) of something that is worth at least $1,000. ...and someone with a good credit history can borrow a LOT of money without collateral (I currently have about $35K worth of available credit that only requires my signature on a charge slip!).

How exactly does that apply to my choice to follow Jesus?...and what makes you think that he doesn't have a good enough credit rating for me to trust that he'll keep his promise to pay me back for whatever he asks from me? I may not be able to assess whether he will keep his promise of eternal life, but he has certainly kept his other promises to me (the ones I can measure and assess) so his credit history is good.

Thank goodness that a first time home buyer doesn't have to prove that they will pay a mortgage in order to buy a house or no one would ever get a mortgage loan!

Answer 9

I would much rather give money (not loan) to someone without credit or collateral than to blindly follow a religion.
Lauren Rosee- you do realize that you can see your brain on a Cat Scan, don't you. And your argument is actually plagiarized off several similar questions tonight as well as an urban legend.

Answer 10

because without religion in society, there would not be the same social rules and norms.
The stems of nature have given rise to human rights, laws against murder, and even just common courtesy among people.
People hang on to these morals and 'unprovable statements' because without them it would be a real dog eat dog world.
Besides...theres not much point in living or making something of yourself if once you die, thats just the end of it. Whats the point of living if there is no purpose to life?
I'd also liek to point out that while you cant prove it...at the same time, you cant fully disprove it either.