Have you noticed while reading the bible that different authors had different theological views?

Question

When you read the bible, do you care about who wrote what, or just think it's all the same? I've realized that people who haven't read the bible all the way through claim it is consistent throughout, even though it teaches many differing views because it has works in it by people who disagreed theologically.

No one can say that Paul and James were of the same mindset when it comes to works and faith. Paul said works are meaningless as faith is all that matters, James said faith without works is dead. They never agreed on this, but both are in the bible trumpeted as "the word of God." Why would God disagree with himself?

Perhaps he didn't. Perhaps the books that were voted into the Christian bible were just that, books that were voted into the Christian bible, and not divinely consistent works that mystically assembled themselves.

Jesus was a Jew that got fed up with what his religion had become. He had ideas to change the mindset of his people and offered a different perspective that was long overdue. He wanted to keep what was good about Judaism, but discard the bad. James was of the same mindset, and like Jesus decided to keep the good, but discard the bad. Paul, on the other hand, was a confessed liar who used the idea of Jesus (whom he never met) to create a new religion with a new theology. By all accounts, if the bible is to be considered the word of God, then nothing written by Paul should be in it. His views are obscenely inconsistent with that of Jesus and his brother James, yet somehow, his opinions are what most Christians follow.

Has anyone else noticed this? If not, and you think I’m a liar, take your time and find out which books are attributed to who. Compare for yourself how the teachings of Jesus, the teachings of James, and the teachings of Paul differ.

Don't take my word for it, find out for yourself.

Again, has anyone else noticed this?

(((Riegan)))

(((Daughter)))

I hope my wife doesn't find this!

(((Suzanne))) I love that you have put thought into this, but I have do differ with you. They are not consistent unless you choose to ignore their arguments. You have a great heart, and a sound mind, but you've only studied the bible from the standpoint that Jesus was the world's savior. Take some time to find out how God dealt with sin and atonement BEFORE Jesus showed up. Judaism has a lot more to it than Christians and Messianic Jews would have you believe.

p.s. Just so everyone knows, I'm not issuing any thumbs down on this question. From my perspective, if you don't agree with me you just don't agree with me.

behonest, please take the time to read what you just said, and what I wrote, and compare it to what was actually taught at the time Jesus walked the earth. Faith has never saved anyone according to Judaism. What you DO on Earth is what matters. The righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come, not just those that believe in a particular god. James understood that, Jesus understood that. Paul did not. There are more works about Jesus in existence than what you find in the bible. If you find the time, read The Gospel of Thomas.

So many of you keep saying God gave you the choice to believe in him or not, but fail to realize that in Judaism, it doesn't matter if you believe in God or not. Gentiles were NEVER subject to Mosaic Law, they were GIVEN all manner of things to worship. All God ever required of Gentiles was that they be good people with just laws that weren't cruel to animals. Your knowledge of biblical concepts is limited because you don't seek to understand, and you only learn what someone else (most likely the same type of "pastor") has taught you. Get off your butts and LEARN FOR YOURSELF what Jews believe about their god and how he treats those that aren't believers. When you do that, you can go through the christian bible and see what is and is not consistent with that, and why I say the things I say.

Don't automatically give credit to it because you were told to, find out for yourself what is true.

snowbunny, I'm not pointing at God saying "oh look, a mistake", I'm pointing at Paul and the bible and saying "this guy should be here." God didn't assemble the bible, men did. They argued and voted to decide what to claim as "divinely inspired" and left out what showed a perspective other than the one they wanted to present. I'm not blaming a god for that, I'm blaming people.

There's a huge difference.

snowbunny, again, I'm pointing at Paul, saying that he (Paul) shouldn't be in the bible, if it is truly the word of God. I am discrediting Paul, not God. Paul is not God, and the bible is not God either. They are completely seperate things. Just because Paul wrote it does not mean that it came from God. People may choose to believe that it is, but that does not make it true. Paul is a confessed liar who gives account of some of his lies in the bible itself. I do believe that God has made his view of lying and liars clear prior to Paul's arrival. Please try to separate the bible (a book put together by men who voted what to put in it), Paul (a man who says he lied to get people to worship Jesus), and God (who gave the Jews specific instructions about liars and worshipping anything other than him and himself alone).

Answer 1

Yeah, it wasn't until I actually started to read and study the bible, both within and without, did I realize that is was a book written by a lot of different people with different ideas about God.

Old Testament theology is WAY different than New Testament Theology.

Jesus expanded upon Jewish law while Paul negated it.

Other than the synoptic gospels and a few books like Revelations, James, etc.

the rest were written by Paul and his contemparies. Even Peter is thought to of be written by one of Paul's crew and not from Peter himself.

What amazes me the most about everything is that Jesus has no written works.

Then early christianity had many ideas and writtings and then some hundred or so years later people have this council sponsored by an emperor who allegedly saw an image of the cross and was told to rule by it. That alone scares me, if Jesus wanted to rule I'm sure he would have with his popularity.

So one group of thought won in the council and from that point everything else was heresy. You can't rule a state with differing ideas about the religion you are using to control people.

On top of that you have people who translate the bible according to doctrine. That means a word will be translated a certain way to give weight to the doctrine though another word would be a better fit. They don't choose the word because it would question the doctrine.

Then you have whole theologies based on the TRANSLATION provided.

Additionally you see the fruits of the early church and still see some of the rotten fruit today (westboro.)

Then you have people converting in fear of hell (which early church fathers were quoted as being happy to know their enemies would burn in hell. Also they admit something not widely known is the idea that people were led to believe false things only to be taught the truth about it later after they've fully converted.)

The basic thing which we need is to love God our creator and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

It doesn't shake my belief in the creator but it certainly makes me question a lot of doctrines that are currently taught.


-- The doctrine I was talking about is the doctrine of reserve --
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EarlyChristianView.html

Answer 2

Paul and James didn't disagree; they're just writing from different viewpoints. What you are seeing in the Scriptures that seem contradictory are actually instances where human writers, guided by the Holy Spirit, are also seeing one issue from two different angles.

God does not want a faith that is empty and hypocritical. James 2 is talking about those who "say" that they have faith but have no works. Therefore, people cannot tell if they are true believers or not, because there is no fruit. That kind of a faith is useless and is not a saving faith. True faith results in true works.

In Matthew 19:16-17, Jesus was speaking to a Lawyer who was self-righteous and tried to put Him to the test (see also Luke 10:25). He asked what he must do in order to obtain eternal life and Jesus responded with the requirements of keeping the commandments. If a person keeps all of the commandments, it would seem that they could obtain eternal life. However, nobody can keep all of the commandments perfectly; atonment is always needed, and even then it only "covers" the sin -- which still remains. Therefore, Jesus' comments show the man that justification can only be by faith. This is why Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by grace through faith. Also, Romans 3:20-28 and Galatians 2:16 tells us that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law; that is, by the works that he can do.

There is no contradiction at all when we examine the context of what each man is saying. We are justified by faith but that faith must be ALIVE (James 2). The Law (with consists of works) clearly cannot save us (Matthew 19:16-17). Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith.

p.s. -- far be it from me to call you a liar. I have not found you to be a liar in any of your questions.

EDIT: (((((((Confirmed Atheist))))))) We disagree, but that's ok.

Answer 3

Coming from your perpestive your attitude towards the Bible is not uncommon, I know many people who do believe in God but not the Bible say the same thing, And of course the problem is you are trying to figure out God without the help of the Holy Spirit and its just not possible and it never will be. Paul and James are in total agreement. They had different ministries. There messages were about different aspects of Christianity. Pauls job was to lay the foundation for Christianity, James was a leader in the Church and said that if you sat in the pews and did not get off your but and do something for God your Faith was dead. They were both right on. God gave you the choice to believe in him or not. Thats your choice but the Bible says that if you do not believe in Jesus you will spend eternity in hell with the devil. If I am right your eternity will be in misery and mine willbe in paradise, I wish I knew the words that would convince you that the Bible is truth but I don't know them. All I can do is Pray for you, and I do Pray that God will let his light shine thru and touch you in a way that you will come to see the truth, the old devil is smart and he has you right were he wants you. I am sorry for that. I has played that game with me before but somehow I saw thru it and God saved me, my Dear old Grandma prayed for me continuelly and I believe that is what made the difference in my life. She refused to let satan win, and he didn't. When you see a cross on a hill or anywhere does it remind you of Jesus. Check out Hebrews 10:16. Deep down you do have questions and doubts about what you believe or you wouldn't be here, Please Think about it, and read that verse Please!!!

Answer 4

Have read the words of all of them and see no inconsitencies. James does not, anywhere, say that works are what save you. He says that your works PROVE your faith. Anyone can say that they have faith, but someone that really believes will not stop with words, they will put their beliefs into action. Paul states that works alone cannot save you. If works could save you then your salvation rests on your shoulders and you do not need Jesus.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:10 written by Paul telling that we have good works to do.)

Paul was stating that simply following the Law would not bring salvation, you must also have faith.
James was saying that it is not enough to only SAY you have faith, you must have good works to SHOW your faith.

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (James 2:22)

Both James and Paul call for faith AND works, not only one or the other. But that was a nice try!

Answer 5

No I have not noticed this. The controversy between what Paul wrote and what James wrote, for instance is not about what they actually wrote, but it was a later controversy between the Catholic/Orthodox churches and the Protestant churches. One group believes that you get merit - indulgences, etc., which were supposed to shorten one's time in purgatory - from doing certain things, and as a result, there was a tremendous abuse of this concept because people were buying indulgences, and the church became very rich as a result. Martin Luther's protest in the form of the 95 Theses was primarily a matter of a protest of these concepts.

Paul and James had nothing to do with this, having lived and preached and written under inspiration before the doctrines of purgatory and indulgences, etc, were even invented by the churches. The hundreds of years of conflicting commentaries that were written by uninspired humans strengthened this conflict and divided the churches.

Jesus, who prayed to his Father and God that his followers "be one just as we are one" John 17:22, had nothing to do with this. Christians should follow his desires, not those of divisive humans.

Answer 6

Well, of course it didn't mystically assemble itself,; there were arguments between men about which books would eventually make up the bible. I've studies verses throughout the bible, but have never went to so much trouble as to use one person's words against another's and then turn around and point at God saying...look, a mistake! Because of the complexity of the bible in it's nature...being written by several authors...I concentrated my efforts on the words written in red, the words of Jesus. There are great lessons throughout the Bible, but my faith rests in his words.

Answer 7

Yes, I noticed it the first time I read the bible straight through which was at about age 16.

It only makes sense that different people would have different takes on what they perceived. Even when people are right there they will never have the same impressions - look at the different takes you get when Kennedy was shot in Dallas. They all saw it and no two accounts of what occurred are exactly alike.

Answer 8

Paul wrote Hebrews and he NEVER SAID that faith alone is all that matters.
(Hebrews 12:1) So, then, because we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also put off every weight and the sin that easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

The race, the effort...is the works.

The preaching is the works.

(Hebrews 12:1) So, then, because we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also put off every weight and the sin that easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house.

Answer 9

I've definitely noticed it. ; )

Paul doesn't even agree with himself--in 2 Timothy he says women can speak in church, as long as their heads are covered. Then, three chapters later, he says they can't speak or teach in church at all, ever. He probably didn't write at least 1/3 of what is attributed to him.

Just as in any other book, one should use one's own judgement to decide what you find true and beautiful in the Bible. There is no cause to say that you have to accept either 100% or 0% of it as true--do you do that with War & Peace, or Les Miserables, or Wuthering Heights? No--you decide which viewpoints you agree with, which you disagree with, and which might have insight that is useful for your personal growth, and which cause you to more clearly articulate your own position on certain issues.

Answer 10

James and Paul believed exactly the same thing. Paul wrote to people who needed to know that justification before _God_ was by faith; James wrote to people who thought that mere head belief was real faith. He wrote of being justified before _men_, not God.

All of this is so obvious, I can't believe that people are still parroting it.