Do you think the following consecutive verses from the Quran puts islam in a bad light or in a good light?

Question

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. (190) And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. (191) But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. (192) And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. (193)"

Kindly explain what would be your intepretation.

txoffice, maybe you can then tell me what is the proper context as a whole? I cited this because a muslim guy tried to use these verses to vindicate islam. However, when I read it, I don't see any vindication at all, instead just the total opposite.

Mim, maybe you can tell me how does the cite verses prevent them for murdering non-muslims? Clearly, there is no verse in there that say, "Do not murder non-muslims."

kal_corp, of course fighting back is okay. But there is a difference between fighting back and "slay them wherever you catch them".

2/22/1983 - Hindus kill at least 3000 Muslims

So, the answer is "slay and kill all hindus"?

9/15/1982 - Sabra&Shatila - Christian & Jewish forces massacre at least 3500 men, women & children

"So the answer is slay and kill all jews and christians?" Anyway, I know this case, this is a classic case of retaliation against the muslims that went overboard, but to blame all jews and christians for this is absurd.

07/1995 - Serbenica Masscre at least 8000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys reported missing

Again the answer is to "slay and kill all serbs?"

Iraqi War, Abu Gharib, Soldier Raping Iraqi's....do I really need to go on.....there's many mre masscres!

Yes, plenty of wrong done to muslims just as plenty of wrong done to non-muslims. But non-muslims don't go randomly killing muslims in retaliation, they seek out the individuals and the organizations for revenge and justice. Muslims are the only one that attacks blindly.

This was revealed during the time of war but not created during the time of war. That doesn't mean that it is only applicable in times of conventional warfare. Do you believe that these verses was created during that time of war or they already existed but revealed during that time of war.

"however when you say, don't start problems, but if they come to fight, then kill them right then and there, because if you don't kill them they are going to make things alot worse than just fighting....It makes alot more sense when you think of it like that, doesn't it?"

Are you suggesting that all the terrorists in Guantanamo bay be killed? Does that makes alot of sense to you? Its against the geneva convention. Clearly these quran verses contradict humane values.

"If you have a guy strapped with a bomb on his way to kill a bunch of people wouldn't you rather him be killed first."

Yes, but the only people doing this are muslims.

"Don't the U.S. soldiers kill thousands of innocent civilians just in case they are insurgents."

This is not true as far as I know. You have to give proof. If it is proven true, the culprits will be put on trial and court marshalled. That is the difference between constitutional law and Sharia law. If a muslim did what you just mentioned, he/she will be hailed as a hero.

"The mentioned does not violate any convention"

"Slay them wherever you catch them" is a violation.

"as no human is more merciful than our Creator"

Agreed. But Allah is not our creator.

Not Bruce: Lets see what are the 5 verses before 2:190

Ramadan is the month in which the Qur'an was revealed as guidance to man and clear proof of the guidance, and criterion (of falsehood and truth). So when you see the new moon you should fast the whole month; but a person who is ill or travelling (and fails to do so) should fast on other days, as God wishes ease and not hardship for you, so that you complete the (fixed) number (of fasts), and give glory to God for the guidance, and be grateful.(185)
When My devotees enquire of you about Me, I am near, and answer the call of every supplicant when he calls. It behoves them to hearken to Me and believe in Me that they may follow the right path.(186)

You are allowed to sleep with your wives on the nights of the fast: They are your dress as you are theirs. God is aware you were cheating yourselves, so He turned to you and pardoned you. So now you may have intercourse with them, and seek what God has ordained for you. Eat and drink until the white thread of dawn appears clear from the dark line, then fast until the night falls; and abstain from your wives (when you have decided) to stay in the mosques for assiduous devotion. These are the bounds fixed by God, so keep well within them. So does God make His signs clear to men that they may take heed for themselves.(187)
And do not consume each other's wealth in vain, nor offer it to men in authority with intent of usurping unlawfully and knowingly a part of the wealth of others.(188)

They ask you of the new moons. Say: "These are periods set for men (to reckon) time, and for pilgrimage." Piety does not lie in entering the house through the back door, for the pious man is he who follows the straight path. Enter the house through the main gate, and obey God. You may haply find success.(189)

"These verses don't show up randomly. Its not like 5 verses before we are talking about cotton candy....."

Not cotton candy, but certainly 5 verses before have NOTHING TO DO WITH WAR!

"God is telling the muslims during THAT war, when you find the enemy kill them. Not the day after the war is done.....but during THAT war/battle."

This is just your intepretation. You don't speak for the Quran and certainly not for the muslims. The Quran never say this orders are for THAT war. As a muslim, you have to believe that a clear and concise book like the Quran is never wrong.

I'm not in support of the US being in Iraq. The US should pull out immediately, they have no business to be there. Regardless, what they do is not right, but neither killing Americans by "Slay them whenever you find them" is right either. Whether those scandals are true or not remains to be seen, but if found guilty, they will be punished.

Answer 1

why be bothered with this non sense when there's the 9/11, bombings in the mid east, madrid, london. bali... that put islam in a bad light definitely!

Answer 2

I am so glad you asked this question. Quran is a very special book. You have to read it in the context that it was revealed in. That is the reason it was revealed over 23 years instead of just one day. Muslims would encounter a problem and Allah will send down a solution to this problem. Before this Aya was revealed Muslims were not allowed to fight at all. Not even in self defense. They were forcefully driven away from their houses, there property stolen, they were harassed and oppressed. But the didn’t respond. In this verse they are now being given permission to defend themselves. Read the verse carefully. The first line says “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.” It is plain English, fight those who fight you and do not cross any boundaries. The rest of the verses refers to ‘THEY” the ones who are fighting you. I don’t see how this implies killing non-Muslims.

Now let me give you an example of this being followed by the American Army. America gets attacked by terrorists. What do they do? They fly to Afghanistan, kill anybody associated with this attack. I am not saying that this is wrong but this is what they did. Are there actions not in conformity with this verse even though they are not Muslims. They did this to prevent any future attacks on America and make an example of those who did. Isn’t this just for survival.

Answer 3

I'm going to have to go with Kal here on it was revealed during a war.

You have to know that when in time you are reading the verse, and if you dont' take the time to learn when the verses are revealed historically.....well you really don't care i guess....

God is telling the muslims during THAT war, when you find the enemy kill them. Not the day after the war is done.....but during THAT war/battle.

It also says that if they surrender....then don't kill them......and if the army as a whole surrenders, but individuals fight back, then you can kill the individual.........

and then its a message for war in general. Seek out your enemy while in war.......and kill them....its all in context of history.....

I mean you don't take a recipe for chocolate brownies and use it to make a vanilla cake.

Other verses state when you can wage war....and what not. You can't take these 4 verses to be the entire rules of conduct for war.

I see nothing wrong. I mean these verses are about war.

These verses don't show up randomly. Its not like 5 verses before we are talking about cotton candy.....

Answer 4

190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.


Pure words of wisdom and Justice.
See again ,

" those who fight you"

"but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors"

"and turn them out from where they have Turned you out"(first)

"But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful"

"but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression"

On the face of Earth The Most Justified are the rules laied down by Quran.

Answer 5

Bomb with a short fuse.

The Qu'ran wants them to fight oppression and oppressors.
The number of things at any level that can possibly be counted as oppression is astronomical.
As such, that gives Muslims in theory an excuse to wage war on an awful lot of other people... i.e. ANYONE they think is oppressing them in any way, shape or form.... right down to criticising the colour of their shoes.

Answer 6

What you are failing to understand is that this was revealed during a time of war. You are completely missing the point....

If your fighting in the Name of God, then don't overpass our limits (basically don't fight them unless they fight you). And if they fight you then kill them, because their death is better than the torment they are going to cause later. Their death is their reward for waging a war against you. Key Point...BUT IF THEY CEASE, ALLAH IS OFT-FORGIVING MOST MERCIFUL. It's funny how one reads that.

Is this not still practiced today. If you have a guy strapped with a bomb on his way to kill a bunch of people wouldn't you rather him be killed first. Don't the U.S. soldiers kill thousands of innocent civilians just in case they are insurgents. You speak of the Geneva Convention? The mentioned does not violate any convention as no human is more merciful than our Creator. But sometimes, blood must be shed in order for a better society, and this still is in existence until today!

Update -- Slay them where you catch cannot be taken out of contect...you have to look at it in a entire picture. If you just read slay them where you catch them it sounds cruel and questionable...however when you say, don't start problems, but if they come to fight, then kill them right then and there, because if you don't kill them they are going to make things alot worse than just fighting....It makes alot more sense when you think of it like that, doesn't it?

UPDATE - you are indeed ignorant. Did you not see the scandals. Did you not hear of the Blackwater scandal? Did you not hear of the U.S. soldiers that raped a 14 years girl after they shot her mother, father, and seven year old sister? Do you know how many inncocent civilians have been killed in "bomb raids" because a suspected "insurgent" was in the area? Are you denial?

Oklahoma bomber was not Muslim. Virginia Tech shooter was not a Muslim. Boulder School Shootings were not Muslim. The people occupying Arab land are not Muslim. And you can undermine Middle-Eastern laws all you want, but the fact remains, that this country is the highest in drug rate, rapes, homicides, and all other crimes....So who's system is really right?

THE QURAN WAS REVEALED TO THE PROPHET (PBUH) VER A PERIOD OF 22 1/2 YEARS. AFTER WHICH IT WAS COMPILED INTO ONE BOOK. EACH REVELATION AND VERSES CAME TO THE PROPHET (PBUH) AT THE PROPER TIME....THIS WAS DURING A TIME OF WAR.

HAVE YOU READ THE QURAN IN IT'S TRUE FORM----ARABIC----IF YOUR ANSWER IS NO, THEN YOU TRULY DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO OFFER TO THIS DISCUSSION----IT IS ONLY THE WORD OF GOD WHEN IT'S IN IT'S ORIGINAL TRUE FORM---ANYTHING TRANSLATED HAS NOW BEEN ALTERED BY MAN AND INTERPRETATIONS DIFFER BY AUTHOR.

***DENVER**** Spoken like a a truly intellectual individual....Thank you for that help.lol

Answer 7

It really depends on how you interpret it. Some could call the fighting justified, while others call it murder in the name of faith. You failed to really put it in the context of the book as a whole, so it could be seen as a murderous faith.

The same is done with the Bible. If you take verses out of context it can be viewed negatively.

Answer 8

To believe that Islam is to establish the peace in the land of God is great devastation for some bogoted mind. Problem is mindset that is programmed to believe only negative about Islam, you can't help

Answer 9

Bottom Line

When they came to fight muhammed he killed them

When they came to kill Jesus, he gave himself up to them

Jesus said you shalt not kill and lived by that word

he did not kill anyone, and died because of his belief

Now you tell me on the words of those prophets which of those is a religeon of peace....

Answer 10

I think if they followe dthat correctly it would not be so bad but some think murdering any none muslim is good.