Ecclesiastes 9:5: Does the fact that the dead do not remember anything prove that there is not conscious?

Question

existence after death?

Answer 1

Here is verses 5&6:

Ecclesiastes 9:
5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

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The physical body is dead.
The body has no capacity of memory.
_____________

A person no longer reaps what they sowed in the flesh and they are soon forgotten after a couple of generations.

All they have done in the flesh is vanity(of temporary meaning).

_____________

Many of the dead are at rest in God until it is time of re awakening.

Answer 2

When Solomon says the dead know nothing and that there is no work, planning, knowledge, or wisdom after death, he is not contrasting life with afterlife, but life with death. After you die, you can't change what you have done. Resurrection to a new life after death was a vague concept for Old Testament believers. It was only made clear after Jesus rose from the dead.

When the Bible says a person is “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal “sleep.” Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be sleeping. The Bible tells us that the instant you die, you are taken to heaven or Hell based on whether you had received Christ as your Savior or not.

Answer 3

The dead know not any thing of that which, while they lived, they were intimately conversant with. It does not appear that they know any thing of what is done by those they leave behind. Abraham is ignorant of us; they are removed into darkness, Job 10:22. (2.) There is an end of all our enjoyments in this world: They have no more a reward for their toils about the world, but all they got must be left to others; they have a reward for their holy actions, but not for their worldly ones. The meats and the belly will be destroyed together, Jn. 6:27; 1 Co. 6:13. It is explained v. 6. Neither have they any more a portion for ever, none of that which they imagined would be a portion for ever, of that which is done and got under the sun. The things of this world will not be a portion for the soul because they will not be a portion for ever; those that choose them, and have them for their good things, have only a portion in this life, Ps. 17:14. The world can only be an annuity for life, not a portion for ever. (3.) There is an end of their name. There are but few whose names survive them long; the grave is a land of forgetfulness, for the memory of those that are laid there is soon forgotten; their place knows them no more, nor the lands they called by their own names. (4.) There is an end of their affections, their friendships and enmities:

Answer 4

So, if your reasoning is correct then your 144,000 theology is bunk because they could not possibly have a conscience existence after death. You're reasoning is self defeating of your own theology. If it debunks the life after death theology for main stream Christianity, it debunks your 144,000 theology as well.

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Not the last few words of verse 6: "that is done under the sun." Their earthly existence is over; they not longer contend with earthly love, hatred envy or portions. The earthly aspect of their life is over.

Verse 5: The memory of them is forgotten. Do you remember your great great grandmother? Probably not. Her memory is gone. We don't remember the dead long after they have died.

Answer 5

Solomon is speaking in a physical sense of death not the spiritual. When we physically die we turn back to dust. However after we die we have an appointment before the throne of God. (Heb. 9:27) We will face the Ten Commandments and most will be sent to hell. You have to be conscious to be judged and to receive your punishment. In Luke 16:19-31 we see the story of Lazarus and the Rich man. Lazarus was comforted and the Rich man was being tormented in hell. Luckily Jesus (God in flesh) came to earth and save us if we repent.

Answer 6

Since it's essentially the same Q, I'm just going to cut and paste here what I said about your Q on the Psalmists:

No, what conditional immortalists and annihilationists are sadly ignorant about in their interpretation of words and phrases for doctrinal purposes dealing with death and the grave when they read the Bible is the strikingly progressive nature of awareness the Biblical authors had regarding a resurrection. For example, any Psalmist outside of David, who had unusually early knowledge of such, having been directly informed by God about it (Psalm 16:10), would not be privy to such information during these earlier stages in redemptive history. The Psalmist was going only by what he or she perceived with the physical eye (the same issue with the writer of Ecclesiastes), having no inspirational knowledge about a resurrection to come. It is why the words "vanity of all vanities" were chosen by the "Teacher" in the book of Ecclesiastes to describe our very brief life as it is, and having to look forward to the grave in the end.

In contrast to this, during the intertestamental period (between 400BC up to the time of Jesus' ministry) any readers of the Bible, the Apocrypha (the hidden books written during this period), and other apocalyptic literature of the time would have noticed a drastic and progressive change in awareness of a resurrection to come from the time of the OT authors. The majority of the Jewish leaders at Jesus' time, such as the Pharisees and the scribes, all believed in a resurrection to come. Of course, the Sadduccees didn't. Why? And this is my point, because they didn't believe that the written words of the major and minor prophets (from Isaiah through to Malachi) were inspired of God, like the Law of Moses was, being the first five books of the OT). The Prophets speak much about a Messiah to come; inferring, if not explicitly describing life anew in the afterlife, as well as eternal suffering (Isaiah 66:22-24).

Another thing that is a huge error on the part of the conditional immortalists and annihilationists (as well as sadly the translators of the KJV in many places) is their interpretation of the Hebrew word "sheol" and the Greek word "hades". However, the former appear to always define these words as "the grave". However, the Chaldean lexicons of the Hebrew language, definitions for vocabulary words, such as "sheol", come from the vast rabbinical literature throughout the ages in the history of the people of Abraham. And there you will never find this word translated as "the grave". Rather, there are 4 other Hebrew words to describe being six feet under. The word "sheol" in Hebrew is defined as "the nether world", coming from two roots "under" and "world or place", and it is also defined as a place where souls go after death. Many OT authors describe this state of being as actually conscious! (However, I don't have these references right off hand, but would be glad to give then to you later).

The NT Greek word "hades" is used almost interchangeably with the word "sheol" in literature. Hades was a place, before the historical events of the death and resurrection of Christ, where both the righteous and the unrighteous went after death. According to the OT prophetic books and the rabbinical literature of the intertestamental period, the word "Paradise" and/or "Abraham's bosom" was where the righteous went, leaving us to believe that there were two separate places in sheol or hades, one for the saved and one for the damned. It does appear that this is the exactly the case when the Bible reader encounters Luke 16:19-31, the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

Then, during the time of Christ's death, His resurrection and ascension, He, according to the Pauline and Petrine epistles (Ephesians 4:7-10 and 1 Peter 3:18-19) brought all those righteous to Heaven with Him, but leaving all those damned in hades for the final judgement to come (Revelation 20).

Answer 7

Do you think you are alive now?

I mean I fully understand that you have a "feel good about me" agenda tonight but do you care at all about anything other than your self convinced authoritative declarative statements?

So, here's one for you... How could a God of love and light create a being in his image that does not have eternity? Oh I know that you will rush to say that that was lost in the garden but was it not atoned for at Gesiname? What did Christ mean when he said that there would be some that would never taste death?


And now you will run for your copy of "Reasoning" and it will point you to the 144,000 Kings and Priests. How am I doing so far? Have you ever contemplated the meaning of symbolism in your life or have you decided that a group of "Elders" in Brooklyn will do all of your heavy lifting?

Men that were hand picked buy Christ Jesus himself that spent 3 and 1/2 years with him still did not get it until he opened their mind. Luke 24:45. Is it possible for us to believe in something so hard that it becomes the truth? I guess its a matter of perception now isn't it. Is it God's opinion or our own that can save us?

Answer 8

No, it simply proves that you are dead and you remember nothing. It says, the dead knows nothing.

There is existence after death. You have a soul and that soul will live in Heaven or it will live in Hell.

It's your choice.

Answer 9

It means that the dead "sleep". As I sleep, I am by definition unconscious.

I Thessalonians. 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

That "sleep" will end when Christ returns

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Answer 10

Only those that pay the wages of sin are dead. Those in Christ live eternally