For the Jews: I've heard that the minute a Jew professes belief in Jesus as the Messiah, they are disowned

Question

by their families and the Jewish community as a whole?

If this is true, why do you feel this is necessary? It seems a little harsh to me...I'm a Christian, and I have family members that are atheists, but I don't treat them like some kind of pariah, or disown them.

Answer 1

I think there are two reasons. The first is because they continue to believe--or at least profess--that they are still Jewish when they most certainly are not. This is simply an insult to Jews everywhere. A bit more about that in a minute. The second reason is that this is seen as essentially rejecting a, or perhaps the, core value of the family. I'm not saying that every family would reject them, but I can easily see how being around this person would be extremely, extremely painful.

Now, about "Messianic Jews". Their claims of Judaism have been rejected by every Jewish organization, period. But what about born a Jew, always a Jew? I know you didn't ask but I tend to run on a bit.

Let’s review Jewish law. Most Jewish scholars agree that you cannot convert away from Judaism (there are a minority who say you can convert away). However, this by no means implies that a Jew who joins another religion has the same standing as a Jew who has remained Jewish. A Jew who practices another religion, whether it be Christianity (in any of its forms, including Messianic "Judaism"), Islam or anything else, is known as an "apostate." An apostate is someone who has removed themselves from the Jewish people by joining another faith. The apostate cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetery. Nor can the apostate be counted for a minyan, the minimum of ten adult Jews (or adult Jewish men, depending on one's denomination) needed for saying certain prayers. For nearly all practical purposes, they have the same status in the Jewish community as non-Jews. The only differences is that they do not have to undergo a full conversion to rejoin the Jewish community, though there is a process known as "Teshuvah" that they must go through to come back to the Jewish community with full Jewish status.

So, once we delve into Jewish law we see that a Jew who joins another religion, though still Jewish, has ostensibly the status of a non-Jew and is no longer able to participate as a full member of the Jewish community. The apostate has the weakest of all grasps to their Jewish identity, they are Jewish by birth but otherwise have no position in the Jewish community.
This then brings us to a discussion on the difference between "doing Jewish" and "being Jewish." By "doing Jewish", I am referring to someone who is actually practicing Jewish beliefs and laws. By "being Jewish", I mean someone who has been born Jewish. Now, there are many people who are born Jewish but are not practicing Judaism. For instance, if a Jewish person murders a family, the Jewish person may be "born Jewish" but certainly was not "doing Jewish" as murder is a violation of the Ten Commandments.

Similarly, we can see examples of this in the Jewish Bible. The prime example of this would be the Jews who worshipped the Golden Calf at Mount Sinai. These individuals were unquestionably Jewish by their birth, thus we can argue that they were "being Jewish." However, were they "doing Jewish?" The Bible is quite clear that these individuals, though born Jewish, were not practicing Judaism. The worship of the Golden Calf, though it was a monotheistic form of worship, was clearly a violation of the Biblical law regarding the making of idols. Thus, they were not "doing Jewish." Similarly, in the Prophets we see countless reprimands of people who were undeniably Jewish by birth, but had entered into apostasy by worshipping gods such as Baal and Ashtoret. They were not "doing Jewish" but "doing pagan" and had violated the very underpinning of Judaism. That they were "being Jewish" by their birth was clearly not sufficient. One must also "do Jewish" in their actions.
Along the same lines, many of Jesus' original followers were unquestionably born Jewish. However, by adopting non-Jewish beliefs, such as thinking that Jesus was a god (a violation of several places in the Jewish Bible, Numbers 23:19 and Hoshea 11:9 provide a few examples of this), were no longer "doing Jewish." The same is true for individuals in the Messianic movement today. The Messianic movement was created by Christianity, and its beliefs and values reflect Christianity. By practicing Messianic "Judaism", the individual who was "born Jewish" is no longer "doing Jewish." They have removed themselves from the Jewish community by their practice and beliefs. Unfortunately, too few of these individuals have an understanding of the difference between "being Jewish" and "doing Jewish", mistakenly believing that they can both believe in Jesus and still have the same status in Jewish community as before. They not only have lost status, but also have lost the practice of Judaism. As has been pointed out in the Talmud, the emphasis for us is on the action, the "doing Jewish."

Answer 2

Even Christian sources that are more advantageous than sympathetic and charitable to the Sixties stream 'Messianic Judaism' will concede that 80-95% of Messianic "Jews" were by no skill raised in a Jewish relations, and can't also be heavily talked about as an apostate from Judaism. there is even some embarrassment among lots of the leaders of the missionary movements, led to by technique of the particular undeniable actuality that their congregations do the different of what they were meant to do. really than convert Jews, they have a tendency to entice from Christians...lots of whom grow to be interested in what Judaism really is, and, upon doing the point analyze, make a bona fide conversion to a authentic branch of Judaism. So, in all honesty, your easy Messianic "Jew" embraced "Yeshua HaMashiach'' at the same time as he changed into sitting in his relations pew on the close by Southern Baptist church, study a flier about the overpowering favor to assist carry the Jews to Christ, and puzzled if he had a Jewish tremendous-grandmother. And "Jews who have self assurance in Jesus' merely do no longer exist...adherents of Judaism and a veneration of a demigod are 2 conflicting realities. To argue in the different case will be as absurd and/or asinine as Muslim missionary initiatives that argue that actual Christians are Muslims. Peace

Answer 3

A very strict (Orthodox) family might do this. To such a family, that person would be considered a very bad influence to the Jewish community, and to continuing to keep Judaism alive. Let me put it to you another way: If someone in YOUR family suddenly converted to something that YOU consider to be harmful to your family, would YOU keep contact with them? Atheists are not harmful to anybody, but people who actively worship what we consider to be a human-embodied "idol" are a direct threat to Judaism.

I'm a Reform Jew (probably the most liberal branch) and if someone I knew in the community suddenly converted to Christianity, we would all be very sad, but we would not want to have a lot to do with that person any more. It wouldn't be that we thought that they were bad, but they would pose a threat on many levels. There would be little doubt in our minds that the person was no longer a person we could trust, in some respects.

I speak from a comparatively unusual position, because I am a Jew who converted FROM Christianity, so I see both sides of the picture. Until I converted, I had only a vague idea of the pain that Jews have suffered at the hands of Christians down the centuries; I won't try to go into it here, as this is not the place for it, but I can completely see the need for an Orthodox family to distance itself from one who chooses to profess Christianity for a number of reasons.

By the way, Judaism is far from unique in its shunning of those who convert; the Amish, Mennonite, Mormon, and (to some degree) Catholic faiths all do this as well; I would imagine that there are others as well.

Again, I'll reiterate, we don't believe that the person is a bad person - just that they're a threat to Judaism in some senses, and we have plenty of threats to our existence without sheltering a wolf in the fold. This is not intended to insult anybody - but we have had thousands of years to learn our lessons, and this is what experience has taught us. Even today, plenty of people would like to see Judaism eradicated. If you don't believe me, check out the "Jews for Jesus" site online. It's run by a very mainstream religion - the Southern Baptist Church - and they make no pretense about their aim of converting EVERY Jew to Christianity, thereby wiping out Judaism.

When all is said and done, a Jew who believes in Jesus simply isn't a JEW any more, and when it comes to religion, that's what matters to us.

Answer 4

They aren't treated like "pariahs." If they've become Christian, then they no longer associate with the Jewish community -- they prefer the Christian community. They can always return to Judaism at any time.

We also don't treat Jewish atheists like a "pariah." There are many Jewish atheists. However, ALL Jews believe that human sacrifice is an abomination and that the belief that God would become human is the ultimate heresy!

I'm very glad to know that you are okay with family members becoming atheists, Muslims, Hindu, Buddhists. You are, indeed, among the Christian minority!
.

Answer 5

It's true. As soon as they profess belief in J*sus they are apostates and can no longer participate in Jewish life. What their families do to them is their own business--but as soon as they profess faith in another god, they are apostates. It's not that we have anything against Xians...there are certain things in Jewish life that only Jews can do. For instance, only Jews can count in a minyan, only Jews can receive an aliyah, etc. A Xian cannot do these things. That's just the way it is. I'm unsure how to explain it completely...give me a little time to think on how to word it...

Peace

And "Jews" for JC are NOT Jews. Messianics, Hebrew Xians, whatever they call themselves, they are NOT Jews.

Answer 6

What there individual families and friends do is their business, but if a Jew actively converts to another religion he is no longer considered a Jew.

Would you consider someone as a Christian if latter in life he converted to Islam or Buddhism?

So why would that person still be considered Jewish when he actively chose something that is antithetical to Judaism?

Jews are not an ethnic group, they are a nationality, and as such one can lose citizenship.

Answer 7

Yes it's true- they violate a major comandment (idolotry), and can't claim ignorance as an excuse, and leave the religion, the parents mourn them, etc, because they are now lost to us. And if it prevents one Jew from leaving, it's worth it. Also, keep in mind that it's been happening for 2000 years, so we have set rules and it's ingrained in us what must be done. Atheists are very recent.

Answer 8

They are not always disowned, it just depends on the family.

But they are no longer a Jew.

I would be upset if my children became xtians because it means that they have decided to forgo five thousand years of tradition and cut ties with their ancestors.


Being Jewish is much more than just a religion. It is a bloodline.

David, how could xtian be a slam? x=greek for christ. Spent much time in school?

also being jewish is not a ethnicty, except according to the nazi's.

Answer 9

not sure the world is slowy losing there religoin and if you read the bible like a real cristen then you would know why calling jesus the son of god would be bad in a jewish comunity

Answer 10

Not necessarily true.

Do a web search on "Jews for Jesus". They are a minority, but fairly well organized and embrace both christianity and their jewish heritage, just as the disciples and early followers of Jesus did.

And Sahel, if what your saying is true ("it's in the bloodlines") then how would accepting Christ make you less Jewish? Converting to christianity doesn't alter your DNA.

(Also - Xtian? What is this, 3rd grade? Is that supposed to be some kind of slam? If so I'm not impressed.)

La'Chaim about the God becomiong human being an abomination and heresy... Try reading Isaiah and Jeremaiah again.

After reading all the comments so far it seems that what everyone is saying is that An atheist Jew is just fine but a Christian Jew isn't...

Perhaps I'm missing some great logical connection here, but tell me please... How does that work?