To those who believe we can lose our salvation, when does eternal life begin?

Question

Here is my big question to the Heretics who adhere to Jacobus Arminius and the Roman Catholic Dogma. When does eternal life begin? Does it not begin when you are saved? And if it is lost, how can it be received again? Eternal life begins then.

Salvation can not be earned thus it cannot be lost. We all believe in the Trinity and it is not spelled out in the Bible. The Trinity is necessary if we have Three Persons but only One God. Likewise, eternal salvation is the only logical outcome of being born again.

Once saved, you are born into a new life, you old soul has died, been crucified with Christ, buried, and been risen. This is symbolically shown during Baptism. How, then, if you lose this life gotten by God's sacrifice, can you retain it?

Hebrews 6:6 You can't get it back because you can't lose it!

Answer 1

Good point!


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Answer 2

Exactly where Jesus said it begins...St. John's Gospel Chapter 3: When we are Born Again by Water and the Spirit in the Dominical Sacrament of Holy Baptism. There is nothing "symboloic" about it.

1 Peter 3:21 - Peter expressly writes that “baptism, corresponding to Noah's ark, now saves you; not as a removal of dirt from the body, but for a clear conscience. “ Hence, the verse demonstrates that baptism is salvific (it saves us), and deals with the interior life of the person (purifying the conscience, like Heb. 10:22), and not the external life (removing dirt from the body). Many scholars believe the phrase "not as a removal of dirt from the body" is in reference to the Jewish ceremony of circumcision (but, at a minimum, shows that baptism is not about the exterior, but interior life). Baptism is now the “circumcision” of the new Covenant (Col. 2:11-12), but it, unlike the old circumcision, actually saves us, as Noah and his family were saved by water.

The doctrine of "once saved, always saved" was invented by John Calvin during the Reformation. Under this theory, the Protestant believes that one is saved when he accepts Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. This is comforting - after all, who wouldn't want assurance? According to this view, true Christians are the ones who will persevere to the end. For those who accepted Christ during their lives but did not persevere to the end, the doctrine calls these people superficial Christians. So true Christians will go to heaven and superficial Christians will not. Not only is this teaching not Scriptural, it is difficult to accept the teaching on reason.

The only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian did not persevere to the end. Otherwise, the two types of Christians appear to be the same. The superficial Christian has all the earmarks of a true Christian except that he did not persevere. But this necessarily means that the true Christian cannot know that he really is a true Christian either until the end of his life. He, too, won't know whether his conversion was genuine until the end of his life. Therefore, despite all the talk about assurance, he cannot be sure.

This doctrine, therefore, actually gives its adherents less assurance of their salvation. It necessarily imposes upon them uncertainty until the end. The Catholic (and Scriptural) view, however, does give assurance to the believer that he is in fact currently saved (a true Christian), and that, if he perseveres to the end, he will be saved at death. We also know that God will give all the graces necessary for us to be faithful to the end (because of our freewill, the question is always whether we will accept the grace or not). Thus, Catholics know that it is theirs to lose. Protestant Calvinists don't even know whether it is theirs to begin with.

Answer 3

According to the bible, immortality is received at the Second coming of Jesus and is given only to the righteous...

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Answer 4

I agree that we cannot earn salvation and God is unchanging so I would guess He doesnt snatch salvation back.

The only answer (IMO) is that one was never truly saved then. You never truly died to your old self and the Baptism was merely a 'going thru the motions' because true salvation cannot be lost as God doesnt change His mind.

Then there is no loss..as you never possessed it in the first place.

Answer 5

Jesus' Teaching on Losing Salvation
Matt. 7:18 - Jesus says that sound trees bear good fruit. But there is no guarantee that a sound tree will stay sound. It could go rotten.

Matt. 7:21 - all those who say "Lord, Lord" on the last day will not be saved. They are judged by their evil deeds.

Matt. 12:30-32 - Jesus says that he who is not with Him is against Him, therefore (the Greek for "therefore" is "dia toutos" which means "through this") blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. This means that failing to persevere in Jesus' grace to the end is the unforgivable sin against the Spirit. We must persevere in faith to the end of our lives.

Matt. 22:14 - Jesus says many are called but few are chosen. This man, who was destined to grace, was at God's banquet, but was cast out.

Luke 8:13 - Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.

Luke 12:42-46 - we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.

Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as "alive again."

John 6:70-71 - Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.

John 15:1-10 - we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don't bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.

John 17:12 - we can be given to Jesus by the Father (predestined to grace) and yet not stay with Jesus, like Judas.

John 6:37 - those who continue to come to Jesus He won't cast out. But it's a continuous, ongoing action. We can leave Jesus and He will allow this because He respects our freewill.

John 6:39 - Jesus will not lose those the Father gives Him, but we can fall away, like Judas. God allows us not to persevere.

John 6:40 - everyone who sees the Son and believes means the person "continues" to believe. By continuing to believe, the person will persevere and will be raised up. Belief also includes obedience, which is more than an intellectual belief in God.

John 6:44 - Jesus says no one can come to me unless the Father "draws" him. This "drawing" is an ongoing process.

John 10:27-28 - when Jesus says, "no one shall snatch them out of my hands," He does not mean we can't leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.

Answer 6

Eternal life begins the moment you take your first breath of air fresh out of your mother's womb. But to keep that life eternal, you must repent of your sins and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow His teachings as to how to please God and live accordingly. Because, if you don't, then you will die in sin and go to hell, where after some time God choosing, He is going to destroy all sin, hell, and the devil and then your eternity will be over.

Answer 7

Jesus doesn't turn his back on you. "Losing" your salvation means YOU turn your back on him and go back into the world. You forsake fellowship with Him and other Christian believers. You can return to him and get back into fellowship with him, but He doesn't make anyone serve him. A gift is not something you make someone give to you. He wants you to come willingly and lovingly to him. "Christians" who have not received salvation (got Saved) are Christians in name only. To be a true Christian you must repent of your sins to Jesus and ask Him to come into your heart and life. True, there are good people in the world, but only repentance brings salvation. As to your perfection qustion, God looks on the heart to jusge us, as well as our outward actions. If you are truely trying your best, He sees you as perfect! Just like a doting parent thinks his/her child is perfect, even though others see a brat! To be saved you only have to ask for forgiveness, and truely believe Jesus is the Son of God who died as a sacrifice for your sins and rose again. Then just do your best! That's all he asks of you! The Bible tell us in Romans "All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved".

Answer 8

well that's a good point.
you get eternal life when you are born again.


"But as many as received him (Jesus), TO THEM he gave the power to become the Sons of God, even to them that believe in his name, which were born.... not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God"- (John 1:12)

"Except a man be born again he cannot enter the kingdom of God" _ Jesus

Answer 9

You cannot lose your salvation if you were actually saved, people want to put thier own ideas and replace Gods words.

Answer 10

You remind me of the man who asked Jesus, "What is the most important commandment?".

He already thought he knew everything, too.