Atheists - need help responding to this allegation?

Question

I've seen some stuff on it before, but my dad sent me a list of comparisons between 1970 and 2007 in our schools.

It doesn't directly state it, but christians will many times use this as an example that god is gone in our country and so therefore the morals of our kids etc... has gotten worse.

Of course you could use any argument to support your claim. IE. The reason schools have more violence is directly related to the decrease in the amount of pirates on earth.

But anyways. Can anyone help me to respond to this allegation or point me to a site which goes into more detail about his.

Here are the examples he sent me:

1970 vs. 2007
Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking
lot with shotgun in gun rack.

1970 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car
and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2007 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and
never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students
and teachers.

Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.
1970 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up
best friends. Nobody goes to jail, nobody arrested, nobody expelled.
2007 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge
them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1970 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal.
Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.

2007 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin; Becomes a zombie; Tested for
ADD; School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives
him a whipping with his belt.

1970 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college,
and becomes a successful businessman.

2007 - Billy's Dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster
care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers
being abused herself and their Dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with
psychologist.

Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.

1970 - M ark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2007 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations.

Answer 1

Christians are in charge of EVERYTHING and they want to blame it on the lack of them being in charge. That's funny.

Answer 2

Wow, those are really elaborate scenarios, gimmie a min.

Edit:

1970 vs. 2007

Scenario 1: On this scenario the main difference is the aftermath recient school shootings. This argument goes both ways, to the lack of good social behavior at school and lack of gun control. The first one by noticing the perpetrators of such shootings are often bullied kids and school administration should intervine and the second by allowing guns in every houshold you facilitate the guns into mentally unstable individuals.


Scenario 2: Here the 1970 example is still seen today however due to scenario #1 the school has taken a more active role on preventing school violence at any cost. This has the negative effect of, in this case, of both the victim and the perpetrator being punished. This is an example of totalitarian justice, the kind no democrady should have.

Scenario 3: Here I speak with experience, having attended catholic schools early in my life and being diagnosed with ADD and ADHD, both treatments are damaging for the individual.

Scenario 4: Also here discipline by violence is not the best way of discipline and both outcomes are greatly altered. The premise of the first imply that Billy is succesful due to violent discipline while the second imply that Billy joins a gand due to lack of a father. Wrong premises.

Scenario 5: Also great exaggeration. Wrong premises.

I don't see how theese arguments are related to absence or a presence or a god. Moral values change according to society, the real problem is keeping the same morales three dacades ago today. They must change and adapt to society and our survival as we continue to evolve.

Answer 3

"Of course you could use any argument to support your claim. IE. The reason schools have more violence is directly related to the decrease in the amount of pirates on earth."

No you couldn't. That doesn't directly relate to the United States education system.

And none of those points relate to religion in any way. They relate to the political correctness between the 1970s and 2007. You can't spank a child now, but you can medicate them to the point of being a zombie. You can't allow fights because someone might get hurt (or even worse their feelings hurt) even though it is natural for kids to do and teaches self reliance and not to mess with people. The only one I can agree with is the gun one... there isn't any reason to be driving around with a shotgun in your car (stop by your house and leave it there if you have to go hunting in the morning).

Answer 4

Remind him that in the good old days, the sheriff would keep out of family business, so that the old man could beat his wife and kids to his heart's content as long as he didn't actually kill them.

And that these things are due more to changes in PARENT involvement, than anything religious. After all, religions aren't the source of our morality. (And of course, these are dramatizations which favor his view-point. Ask him to back these "facts" up. I think in each of these scenarios are more involved than the little descriptions here.)

Answer 5

some of those arent' true SWAT teams dont' come out when there's a fight at school. My dad's on the SWAT team I should know

Answer 6

I would agree with your dad. I personally believe that taking God, not just out of our schools, but out of our lives, is sending our morals and our country downhill. But that's just my personal belief. Obviously, I'm a Christian.

However, how else would you explain these major increase in school schootings?

Answer 7

Touchy subject here.

Do some research on when prayer was taken out of school. It was either 1963 or 1967...can't remember which and I don't have time to look it up right now....heading to work.

Look at the rise in crime, teenage pregnancies, murders, etc, etc, etc that started the YEAR AFTER prayer was taken out, and has risen drastically since.

Now, let's say you call yourself an aetheist....here's a point to ponder....

Do you know everything there is to know? Of course not.
Do you know HALF of everything there is to know?

Well, even if you're really, really smart and know HALF of everything there is to know....

...is it possible that God exists in the half you don't know?

Answer 8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_related_attacks
This should help. Tell them the first school shooting happened at a Catholic elementary school in 1891 in Newburgh, New York.