Question for atheists and Christians?

Question

Christians - When you say that we can neither prove nor disprove God, what constitutes proof?

Atheists - When you say that there isnt any evidence of a God - what constitues evidence?

Christians - Are you merely asserting that the God hypothesis cannot be falsified? If so this is a rather unsprising point because the statement "All men are mortal" cannot be falsified either.

Atheists - Are you merely asserting that the God hypothesis cannot be disproven/proven by means of empirical evidence? If so are we to assume that if God existed then there would be empircal evidence of his existence, and since there is none he does not exist?

Not trying to put words in your mouths but these are very {general statements I.e. (No evidence of God, God cannot be proven/disprove)} And I was wondering if anyone could elaborate.

Answer 1

"Atheists - When you say that there isnt any evidence of a God - what constitues evidence?"
How about some direct, observable intervention? A real event where the laws of nature can be seen to not apply. Or maybe a personal appearance? Surely an omnipotent, omnipresent being should have no trouble explaining itself.


"Atheists - Are you merely asserting that the God hypothesis cannot be disproven/proven by means of empirical evidence?
Yes!...or logic, or testable laboratory simulation, or falsifiability, or legitimate predictions, etc., etc.

"If so are we to assume that if God existed then there would be empircal evidence of his existence, and since there is none he does not exist?"
Not exactly. If you have an idea as ambiguous as 'god' it is impossible to say, for certain, 'he does not exist'. But the instant you begin attributing things to this entity that are observable, testable, etc., you leave the door open for scientific scrutiny. Given the lack of things present we would expect to /be present/ if such a being as the Christian God (or any god as described by mankind for that matter) existed, we reasonably conclude such a thing probably does not exist.

Answer 2

I am an atheist, so I will try and answer the appropriate questions.

"Atheists - When you say that there isn't any evidence of a God - what constitutes evidence?"

There are two types of evidence and I will list the definition of both.

1. Anecdotal evidence is an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay. The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence, such as evidence-based medicine, which are types of formal accounts. Some anecdotal evidence does not qualify as scientific evidence because its nature prevents it from being investigated using the scientific method.

2. Scientific evidence is evidence which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical and properly documented in accordance with scientific method such as is applicable to the particular field of inquiry

As an atheist, I want scientific evidence because anecdotal evidence is often unscientific or pseudoscientific because various forms of cognitive bias may affect the collection or presentation of evidence. For instance, someone who claims to have had an encounter with a supernatural being or alien may present a very vivid story, but this is not falsifiable. This phenomenon can also happen to large groups of people through subjective validation.

"Atheists - Are you merely asserting that the God hypothesis cannot be disproved/proved by means of empirical evidence?"

No, I am not asserting that the god hypothesis cannot be proved by means of empirical evidence. I am asserting that it has not been proved with scientific evidence. This is not the same thing.

"If so are we to assume that if God existed then there would be empirical evidence of his existence, and since there is none he does not exist?"

You can assume what you wish, but if you want me to believe your claim, you must show me scientific evidence. Basically, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Answer 3

as a Christian, i will try to answer.
proof = undeniable, incontrovertible, empirical, non-subjective evidence. there are many things that can be used to infer the existence of God but none of them prove that there is a God. They all rely upon interpretation/subjective evidence that if one does not believe in God then they can theorize and come to a vastly different conclusion.

The 'God hypothesis' cannot be proven true or false. the statement that 'all men are mortal' can not be proven false, but can be proven to be true (empirically, there is not known person living on earth today that was alive 500 years ago, they have all died/been mortal) You could argue that we don't have a 100% sample as there are still people living, but we do not need a 100% sample. we can use a small representative sample and draw valid conclusions from it (ie: if we gathered a representative 1% of all the people of the earth today and applied undeniably lethal methods to each of them, all would die (some more slowly or quickly than others but none would live) or if we followed their lives eventually the entire sample would die of one cause or another. None of the sample would be still living 300 years from now.

Answer 4

You can prove through observation of related facts that there is NO All Powerful AND All Good God . Just as Christians and otherTheists like to point out the proof of existance of "God" by observing good things such as beautiful skys , and deep oceans etc . I can prove that "god" IF it exists can not be an All Powereful AND All Good "god" by pointing out the suffering caused to animals and babies and children and good people . Neither one though proves the existance of ANY god . Why we find pleasure or amazment or ispiration in such earthly things as blue skies and babies CAN be scietifically ( LOGICALLY)explained . The bad things ( like a child and her dog being drowned in a flood ) can be explained by the exisitance of a "god" who doesn't really care , or a "god" who is weak ,Or a god who is a sadist , OR by there being NO "god" . I have seen no evidence of a god ( certainly not of Jesus , god or not ) .Therefore until I see proof of this "god" , I will stick with my belief that there is no god . See all questions CAN be approached LOGICALLY !
Ironically , According to Christians I HAVE proved there is no god , because they require that in order to be considered "god" he has to be All Good AND All Powerful , something that was not required of the Old Testament , Acient Testament , Ancient Greek , and Ancient Roman gods .Those gods often were given unpleasant human characteristics such as jealousy , hatred , vengence , and so on .) While I choose to believe there is no god , I admit the possibility of a weak god , or bad god ( although I feel it is extremly unlikely ). The Christians while choosing to only believe in an all powerful and all good god , they refuse to consider any other possibiliy . This is why they are closed minded . This is why they have to believe on faith alone and only throw up psudo-science and second hand history as smokesceens .

Answer 5

You make some good points of contention. Yet I am wondering why so many are so worried about something so impossible to prove? Why not just wait until you die and find out what happens next. Afterall, none of us can say we live a life that is what others may deem correct, do we?

I have a huge admiration for people who live their lives by the tenets laid out by other men. But to use the words of a man from two thousand odd years ago and tell people that this was the son of God is seriously flawed. And I believe that Jesus Christ, the man, would be horrified by the way his possible words were used by individuals and nations.

The words and teachings of Jesus Christ (if such a man existed) were changed and reworded countless times to suit the powers of the times. We formed our society (in the west) upon things that are faith based and upon the tenets from this history.. Has this not changed in our pursuit of knowledge? Probably not. But, please let us give credence to the ideas of other people that may apply.

Is it not possible that the Hindus are closer to the truth? They at least revere the unknown, the mystical. Maybe not, but I can put a lot of understanding in their ideals of a world that needs more than a single God to explain our misery....should we need one.

I do believe in a higher power, my studies of the Universe in cosmology, etc. have left me with no other conclusion than to realize that we are not alone, but that is my faith in something that I will never use against non-believers,

Answer 6

As a Christian I rest on my faith. There are so many things that happen in my life that affirms my faith and beliefs, but I realize some would call these coincidences. I have been in a crowd of people where I knew no one, and a total stranger has come up to me and asked me if I was a Christian. And as soon as they came up to me, something stirred in my heart and I knew they were as well. That's the Holy Spirit. This has happened many times. I just throw this out--for the sake of making a point--if an Atheist does not believe in God/Jesus, and I do believe, and life ends and he was right, and I was wrong, I have lost nothing, but my faith gave me joy in my lifetime. If, however, life ends, and I am right, and the Atheist is wrong, I have gained eternity with my Heavenly Father, and the Atheist has lost everything but emptiness and hell. I don't know if one could ever prove something to someone who chooses not to believe. If they don't want to believe, they will find a way to disprove everything. That's why sometimes people become Christians only after they have gone through something so severe and life has gotten so low that the only way they can look is UPWARD. Hope this helps answer in some way. Thank you.

Answer 7

"When you say that there isnt any evidence of a God - what constitues evidence?"

The fact that there is an ABSENCE of the evidence of God shows that there is no god. You don't need to falsify Zeus, Thor, Poseidon, and Allah in order to prove it's non-existence, it's the theist responsibility to prove it.

"Are we to assume that if God existed then there would be empircal evidence of his existence, and since there is none he does not exist?"

Yes, just ask your self, are you to assume that if fairies, the FSM, Krishna, and Ra existed then there would be evidence?
Of course I don't say that i'm 100% certain that those gods don't exist, but rather the lack of evidence suggest that their existence is very improbable.

Answer 8

I really can't answer that, but I'm a diest. We believe in a God, only not in the traditional Christian way. We don't do the whole "Adam and Eve" thing or that Jesus is the son of God. Who even says that God is a person and capable of reproducing with humans? Also, the whole Virgin Mary thing is just hilarious. I mean, if I was a guy and my wife just 'became' pregnant without us EVER doing anything, I'd be first in line for paternity testing. Just a few rants for you to consider.

Answer 9

As an Atheist, I'm willing to accept the biblical standard of evidence provided to Thomas. A physical appearance of Jesus with a physical examination of his fatal wounds. After all, if Jesus was willing to give that sort of evidence to one of his twelve disciples, why not to all of us? We are left with ghostly apparitions and scorch marks on tortillas.

In a broader sense, you are correct that I look for some empirical evidence. If god exists as an independent entity whose actions can affect nature, I want to see some evidence of his effect in nature or some theory as to the mechanisms by which he can affect nature.

It ultimately boils down to Occam's razor. The simplest explanation does not require god. Furthermore, there is nothing that I see which is more explicable if you introduce the complications of a god. The best god can provide is an explanation for the gaps in our knowledge and, even there, he does not extend our knowledge, but merely fills the gaps with "miracles" or "mysterious ways".

Answer 10

I'm a Christian. There's no way to prove or disprove that God exists. We'll all find out after we die what the truth is.

This is why I personally believe God exists. I don't think the universe could have been created by accident. Let's look at it this way. If there is a watch sitting on a tree stump, someone had to have put it there. It wouldn't just appear. Likewise, for the earth to be in existance, somene must have put it here. It just makes sense to me that someone put everything on the earth. The world is too perfectly designed for it to have happened by any other way.

But, this is just my opinion. And I respect what anyone else believes. :)