"Logical" Atheist, Here is test #3...?

Question

So, most atheist appear to have major problems with these logic problems. For the first two, doesn't appear that many have a basic understanding of logic.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071031094255AABFZX0&cp=1

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AiOWSPfvw04U8d.fM1kjoTbsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20071031114842AAW9IKI

Which highly confuses me since most of them have used their "logic" to come to the conclusion that God does not exist. So here is a much easier one:

You have 8 coins, one of which is fake. You know that the fake one is lighter than the real ones. You need to find the fake coin using a scale without using any extra weights. What is the minimum number of measurements you need to take? Explain your process of finding the fake coin.

If you don't want to answer, then at least admit that since your knowledge of logic isn't very high, that you could possibly have made a mistake in using your logic for you conclusion of God's existence.

Vishal and others that have correctly answered my previous questions...please don't give the answer away :)

Aviator, all logic reduces down to math. It is all comprised of if x is true and y is false, is z true. At the root of that is math.

Atheist, you should be ashamed...a Christian gave the first correct answer...but don't worry...and atheist gave the more complete answer.

Good job whitehorse456 and Dave P.

Solution:
2 Measurements
Process:
Divide 8 coins into three groups, two groups of 3 coins and one group of 2 coins.

Measurement #1:
weigh the two groups of 3 coins.
Outcome 1: the two groups weigh the same
Outcome 2: the two groups weigh different

Measurement #2
If Outcome 1 then simply weigh the 2 coins from group 3, and you find the fake coin.
If Outcome 2 then use the group of 3 coins that weighed less. leave one coin off the scale, and weigh the other two against each other. If they weigh the same, the coin left out is the fake, otherwise the fake will be shown to weigh less on the scale.

I think these are fun too :)

The Dude: I tried a formal logic problem for my first question, needed to be proved using induction. Question 2 was more basic logic, and this one is even more basic.

JonJon: You got it, that is exactly what I am doing. If you are an atheist for other reasons beside saying you have logical deduced that no God exist...I'm cool with that. I don't have an issue with atheist, I have an issue with atheist on here that claim they are more logical, smarter, more intelligent, or just over all a better person because they are atheist. I don't take shots at people most of the time, but sometimes some people need to be shown where they stand.

No, I will not try to prove God exist...I have stated many times my belief is based off of faith. These questions are not to prove God or disprove that he doesn't exist. They are to show that most atheist don't have any knowledge in logic to claim they have logically deduced there is no God.

I will be back tomorrow for more, I have to go Trick or Treating now with my kids. Yes I'm christian and going trick or treating, figure that one out logically :)

Answer 1

Two.

Divide the eight coins into groups of three (one group will only have two), then balance the two groups of three against each other. If one side is lighter, it contains the counterfeit coin, and if the sides balance, the other group of two coins contains the counterfeit coin. If one of the groups of three contains the counterfeit, weigh two of them. If they balance the third is the counterfeit. If the other group of two contains the counterfeit, weigh the two coins against each other.

Ergo, god does not exist. QED

Answer 2

Let's see
First we take 4 piles of 2 take 2 then weigh each one.
Its there for possible to take only 4 if pair the first 2 was the lightest you would still need to weigh a 2nd pair in order to know which was lighter, the same with the two coins left. This would also be the most logical if it was the last two that was the lightest since you would not have to weigh them so you would know which one was different, because the other 3 weighed the same.

I guess if you made 8 piles of 1 you could get lucky and find out after 2 weighs. But that would be stupid.


Your logic question http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071031094255AABFZX0&cp=1
is stupid since we communicate in many ways, they would all have to be zombies and then none would care, so the brown eyed ones would never know.

Now use your logic to prove jesus existed. Cause the bible is a fable.
Can't can you.




And your friend A.M.D.G claims a logical existance for God but like most Christians he leaves no way to dispute his claims directly to him, with all it's supposition's and false theory. But it was a nice fable anyway.

By the way if I shot at 20 crows on telephone wire and I killed one with a shot gun, I dont break the wire. How many are left sitting on the wire.

still the same # but you didn't answer my question you fake. And I could have found out with less which is what you asked.
Dumbeeeeee

Cognitive thought...your first measure is actually 2 to 3 measurements since each would need to be individually done and the same for the 2nd, how do you put both on the scale at the same time to measure just one you cant you must weigh them 1 at a time. Unless your assuming a triple beam which might need adjustment thus being not the quickest. From your apparent viewpoint the least measurment one be 1 measurment of eight pieces... that is only one measurement by your standards.
However since logic alos incompases other things drop tem on the ground and listen for the difference. If made out of different material would make a different sound....The same would if the size of same material was dropped. By the same idea the appearance could be different or refectiveness or even color. Of maybe they feel different.
How far can you run ito a forest...half way then you are running out.

Answer 3

I'm not an atheist but I like logic puzzles:

3

continue to split even numbers of coins upon the scale, take the coins from the lighter side and continue to split them, on the third weighing you will have 1 coin on each side the lighter coin will be revealed.

Edit: I just read the answers, Dave P (excellent) I wouldn't have thought of holding two coins out--I got too linear...nicely done.

Answer 4

I've mostly ignored your silly little SAT-style word problems, but I think it's time someone called you out on it. I have a BS in computer science, I'm working on a masters in engineering, and I have 3 semesters of formal logic and number theory.

Weigh 3 coins each side. If they're even, you've eliminated 6 and only have 2.

But here's where I'm calling you out: This is not a formal logic problem, it's a creative thinking problem.

And more importantly, it has nothing to with rather you break the rules of reasoning in believing or not believing in God, because the rules of logic do not speak to the axioms that would be relevant to the discussion of God.

Edit: Induction is the application of a formal system; it is not itself an issue of formal logic. And no, that is not an induction question, it's also a creative thinking question.

By the way, had you remembered this question correctly from your practice SAT test or wherever you got it, you would have specified that each coin is weighed once.

Answer 5

These are all mathematics and problem solving questions, not logic based questions.

Logic 1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

What you are doing is proving that religious people don't know what logic is, but ignorantly think that you do.

Edit: Actually no. Logic is meant to be used to things that have to sides, and one must logically conclude. For example, when law was being created it was logical to form a punishment for those who broke the law. It could be argued that a person who doesn't want to punish any criminal is illogical. At least that is how it is in the religious/non-religious debate. Notice that all of your questions have right answers, which can be found using problem solving mathematics. Notice that this can't be done in the religious debate.

To make this relate to the religious debate, or the "logic of atheists", what you would do is say "you have 8 coins...how would you measure them?" NOT ask "what is the minimum amount of measurements?" Then you could base the person's logic on how they would measure the coins.

Answer 6

Strange, you don't mention that if Christians lack the same logic, then their conclusions are equally questionable.

Of course there are atheists who can't do these. You speed when you drive, but you still have a driver's license. You had three grammar errors in your question, but you still allow yourself to write in public! Since when is perfection required to prove competence. If it is, you're already out of contention!

Two, by the way. Weigh three coins in each pan. If they weigh the same, weigh the other two. If they do not weigh the same, weigh two of the three in the light pan. If one is light,that's the bad one. If those two weigh the same, the third coin from the light pan is the bad coin.

Answer 7

3 weighings, either:

4-4, then 2-2 of the lighter set, then 1-1 of the lighter set or:
2-2, then 2-2 if the first pairs balance, then 1-1 of the lighter set. ( could happen in 2 weighings this way)

The MINIMUM is 1 weighing, if you take any 2 coins and get one lighter than another, it's a 25% change.

Answer 8

3

4 vs 4
2 vs 2
1 vs 1

Answer 9

Lao-Tse said "My way is simple and easy." I would just weigh all 8 coins. I call it common sense, but in reality, it's just my own personal philosophy.

EDIT: The logic of not believing in any god isn't based on proof; it's based on a desire to live a happy and fear-free life vs. hating yourself for your natural impulses.

Answer 10

take 8 glasses of water and put the one coin in each glass the one that is not the same as the others would be the one that is fake

Answer 11

3 measurements.

Sorry, show work...

weigh 4 against 4, half the lighter side, weigh 2 against 2, half the lighter side, 1 against 1, lightest is the fake.