Please give me evidence that TKD is effective?

Question

I keep hearing people tell me that it's all in the teacher and the student, and not in the style. They tell me that all styles are somehow equal with no evidence to back that up.

That's clearly bunk though.

You don't carry on that reasoning to other things. Take for example computers. You don't say that all computers are equal because some computers are clearly faster than others.

I see the same with TKD. For example, nothing in the UFC resembles TKD. The standup sure does look like muay thai though. There are plenty of videos of muay thai kicking ***.

SexySara:

That is not evidence.

Actually, there is a lot of evidence against TKD being effective at all.

For one, you never see any TKD used ever or anything resembling TKD in MMA.

Not to mention, even in authentic non-olympic korean versions, the punches are just chambered and rediculous. Same with the kicks.

Mrs. Incredible,

How is TKD any good for self-defense if it's not a good fighting style?

It seems to me that something is only good for self-defense if it teaches you how to really defend yourself.

Answer 1

Since you don't believe Tae-Kwon-Do is effective, I'm going to assume you don't practice it then. Nor is anybody forcing you to practice it.
So what's your beef? Move on.

Answer 2

Two more people too:
Reiji Ozaki does Tae Kwon Do in full contact fighting.
Lukasz Jurkowski is another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0ETJ71sPuw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x__kKOyb2Ow

It is really in how you train:
Hitting a punching bag for power isn't exclusive to a style.
Thai pads are in that same boat.
As bluto said: If you do Balley total fitness Muay Thai, or Capoeira: You likely will not learn anything valuable.
Tae Kwon Do with good training does well for the ranges it covers. That's the main flaw with it. ITF does great hand striking (As you can see), Some WTF schools do as well, and Moo Duk Kwan is 50/50 with striking (ITF is as well). Most schools do not, however, cover the ground (Some do with hybridization, or the addition of ground fighting in itself), or the clinch. That's all.

My evidence lies in the videos not only because some people have gone through the cracks (If it weren't effective: Not one person in the world would ever come close to getting through), but if you think about it: TKD hasn't had too much exposure to MMA and full contact. You've seen a few here and there, but it's one of the most popular arts. At the most: A few hundred (Thousand if we're lucky) have competed overall. How can you make a conclusion, when there's millions of people that take it, various styles, and various schools that differ?
If you train full-contact: You shouldn't worry at all, besides the fighting ranges that you may not cover well. That can done with styles that covered ranges, and you might just want to review or learn something new.

You are also basing your conclusion off of vidoes, without any exposure to the style. That's doesn't make your conclusion completely baseless, but it's a weak supporting point.

As an inverse: How can you prove that it's not effective? The basic kicks, and the kicks within the forms are all the little things you would do in self-defense situations. Of course: That goes with most striking arts these days that are similar, whether it's TKD or kyokushin. Those are only names really.

Answer 3

First of all, you have not given a reason why it's NOT effective, you have merely stated that its "not in MMA" which is not only wrong but probably not what you even meant. MMA stands for Mixed Martial Arts, which means that an MMA practitioner can take any styles of martial arts and mix together his/her favorite moves to make a personal, and assumedly, more effective martial art. So any person can take moves from TKD and mix them with any other art and that is MMA. What you probably meant to say is that you don't see TKD in the UFC, which is also incorrect as every single kick performed in the UFC is a TKD kick. The fighters might have learned the kicks from a different style but TKD teaches every single one of them, there is no difference between the roundhouse kick of a Muay Thai fighter and that of TKD.
Further more, you have not mentioned whether or not you have learned any TKD, or sparred with someone from TKD either. You've never recieved a kick to the side of the head that came at you in under a second. I myself can throw a kick to the leg, followed by a kick to the head in under a second. This TKD tactic is awesome, because I kick the opponent's shin or knee and he flinches from the slight pain leaving his guard down for a slam to the head. You also mentioned the TKD chamber-punch, but again, if you had even watched a TKD class, you would know that the horse-stance chamber punch is only for in class practice. TKD teaches the jab, cross, hammer, backfist, and uppercut punches. An experienced TKD fighter has weapons for every distance, when out of range for fists he throws lighting fast kicks to the legs, ribs, and head. When the opponent inevitably rushes to escape the foot onslaught, the TKD fighter swiches to the jab cross combo. If the opponent goes for his legs he kicks him in the face, or hammer fists his head and neck upon contact. This is why people say it is the fighter and the teacher that can be inferior and not the art, TKD gives a fighter the tools he needs to suceed, but if he is unskilled in using them, or wasn't taught them correctly then what chance does he have?
You really need to get out there and learn what martial art really means. You are obviously inexperienced, and even if you're not a kid, you talk like you are. You need to unglue your eyeballs from youtube and try reading a book, or going to a class. Most martial arts classes don't charge you to just go and watch and see if you like the style. If you truly believe in MMA than you need to step away from the "BJJ, Muay Thai, Kickboxing" fad and really mix it up. Sit in on a Choy Li Fut or Sanshou class. Sit in on a TKD or Karate class. It's painfully obvious that you knew nothing of martial arts before you watched UFC. I trained in Muay Thai for a year back in the 90's before UFC was ever invented, I wasn't impressed, most of Muay Thai's moves are the same as the BASIC moves of other styles, the only original part of it is the elbows and knees. All the ignorant people (I can't honestly call them martial artists) who think they've discovered the standard of martial arts through MMA and UFC remind me of all the little boys back in junior high who tried to argue that the WWF was real, and not acting. Broaden your horizons and don't be just another lemming.
Happy Training

Answer 4

depends on how you train.

if you trained muai thai or boxing at balleys and learned it in a "cardio boxing", or "executive muai thai" class you wouldn't be able to apply it, you might be learning some techniques, but you couldn't use them in a real fight.

It is about how you train.

you don't see a pure tkd stylist because most gyms don't train realistically.

you can't honestly tell me, if you sat there and all you did was practice the rambui that you would be a muai thai fighter.

or if all you did was point spar in your boxing gym that you could actually fight.

you CAN'T carry on that reasoning to other things as when you are dealing with human components you change the rules.

there are factors like size, streght, intensity, speed, conditioning, etc. to deal with that don't come into play with computers and numbers.

if you want to play with your computer example then ok, what is better, a broken model from this year or a working computer from 5 years ago? and speed is not the only factor in computers either.

like you I don't recall seeing a tkd gym that trained realistically. I don't recall seeing a bjj gym that didn't, however I've seen tons of crappy boxing and kickboxing classes that are the equivalent of tae bo taught at workout gyms that unless they had some other form of training, I highly doubt anyone in that class could take out gary coleman if he was hog tied and drugged.

yet boxers and kickboxing have certainly appeared in the ufc.

that is what it is about, realistic training and application not what art is better.

some arts are MORE LIKELY to be providing realistic training than others, however that doesn't mean that there isn't someone applying tkd only techniques in a realistic manner different from your average "point sparring" "ata crap" tkd gym.

the philisophical question of whether or not some tkd snob will still consider it "tkd" I'll leave to the peanut gallery and for the people who give a crap.

All I care is to see all schools that claim to be martial arts and self-defence to prodcue people who train realistically and are able to apply what they are learning or stop calling themselves martial art schools.

you want to call yourself "full contact balletjitsu" be my guest- kick the crap out of people while wearing a tu-tu, but at least you show you are able to.

EDIT: I guess my basic point is that while I can't give evidence that it is, It is certainly conceivable that there is a gym that somewhere trains it realistically. That bieng said, I doubt it would look anything like the ATA, WTF stuff bieng passed off as "self-defence".

Answer 5

Your comparison of Martial arts to computers makes me laugh. I'm laughing right now. Along the same line of thought I'm going to claim that oranges are no good as a food because they don't tase enough like apples.

Now how do we know that TKD is effective? Well TKD isn't as old as some arts but it was made as a unification of older much similar arts such as subak. So it's all that groovey old stuff mixed in a steamy pot of kickity good stuff.

Now do you know why those old arts were around to be mixed into one? Because there were people who trained in them and faught with them and taught them. Now it doesn't take much to realise that the reason those people kept on using the old arts and the reason people keep on using the new ones is because...

You guessed it! They were effective.

And even if you spend your whole life never seeing a TKD fighter win, does that mean they never do? Well I've spent my whole life never seeing you. So therefore you simply can not exist.

Answer 6

It depends on what you want to take from it. If you are looking for a fighting style - TKD probably isn't going to be good for you. They teach fighting styles, but they aren't that effective. I never thought so anyway, so I took up Muy Thai at the same time.

If you want weapons training - TKD probably isn't the right form of M.A.

If you are looking for open forms and self defense - TKD will most likely be your best bet. There are a ton of open forms to learn in TKD and the self-defense methods are relatively easy and effective if done correctly.

I hope that helped ...

Edit - defending oneself is not the same as fighting. I think your views on martial arts are skewed.
The point of M.A. is not to learn to kick someone's *** -- it's learning respect for your body and learning to respect others to gain respect. It's about being able to defend yourself against an attacker if words don't work. Defend meaning putting him/her into submission so you can run away and get help - not defend by leaving them in a bloody pulp and then going to get help.
And the answer below me is correct - you should never study just one type of M.A., you should study different types so they can compliment each other - hence why I take muy thai, bokfu, and TKD all at once.

Answer 7

Heres your evidence right here.

He goes by the name of Serkan Yilmaz. Hes a K-1 fighter who uses TKD as his main style and assuming you watch MMA and other commercialized fights (which is how you probably arrived at the TKD sucks theory), you should know K-1 has tons of Muay Thai fighters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBdtzh8y7sc

Answer 8

TKD is effective, in the sense that it augments other styles. Basically, no one martial art is effective against everything, but all of them are effective against something. To that respect, it is actually useful. Many of the kicks you see in modern MMA are derived from kicks in TKD (or other similar MA's) such as the axe kick, front kick, side kick.... spinning back kick anyone? However, it is relatively useless in the clinch, grappling or any other such close quarters combat. Do you see where I am going? Everything is effective somewhere, and my TKD experience greatly helped my kickboxing skills and ranged fighting. My BJJ took care of close quarters and wrestling/hapkido helped me learn how to dicate which of those I prefer and how to make it happen.

Edit: Sorry Da Funk, didn't mean to tick you off, but I have seen MULTIPLE USES of the kicks I mentioned in MMA, have you really never seen a front or side kick? That seems impossible to me as I see them in every event I watch. Sometimes modified, but very much there. Front kicks are very fast and very effective against a forward moving opponent. GSP is one such athlete, and frequently uses all of the above mentioned kicks.

Answer 9

alright you here ya go bud. the only martial art I've taken formally is TKD. My MMA coach says I am unbelievably quick striker for being new to hard sparring. I've been training mma for a few months now. but I had one fight in mma before I started training. guess what I got taken down, got up hit the guy until he did not want to stand with me. took me down and submitted me. the gym I train at shares space with a TKD instructor who is in his 60's my mma coach says if this guy got mugged he'd kill the mugger with his punches. I have defended myself a couple of times. once I one with a front kick. if you want to see proof of this go check out Wyoming ground and pound web site. that's were I train mma. the web site for the event I fought in is martialartsradio.com. also stephen bonner is TKD he's not the best striker at 205 but I dare you to stand with him. you have been given a lot of proof now. if you do not like it that is truly OK but let it go.

Answer 10

Self defense is a myth.There is no such thing as self defense except if you get attacked by a criminal out to harm you or rob you or your loved ones.
Street fights occur because 2 *** holes couldn't walk away from it period.That is not self defense .
If you have a defensive mind set "he must attack 1st" in either case you will probably lose as action is always faster than reaction and by letting him attack 1st you give up a big edge .
If you have an attack 1st mind set you best save your skills for dealing with criminals and walk away from obnoxious drunks and assholes who think they are bad dudes and usually cowards with a couple bum boys backing them up.

Answer 11

it isn't, its unrealistic and puts emphasis on big flashy kicks which are completely useless in a real situation, the punches are disgusting, and there is a complete lack of guard/defense skills.

zeinzman what are you talking about, I have never seen a front or side kick used in mma, and rarely do I see an axe kick, and its not usually very effective. then you talk about spinning back kicks like they're some awesome move straight from the gods, never have I seen a spinning back kick used in MMA or in kick boxing, nor have i seen a spinning kick or a back kick used in mma or kick boxing, and when I see people try it amonst my freinds they get jumped and choked, its one of the worst things you can try.

mrs incredible, martial arts are about fighting, what do you think martial means, art in this case means skill, not creative expression, they are about fighting and beating the hell out of people, you think you're practicing punching and kicking and not learning to fight? wake up. the other supposed aims of MA are excuses by people who can't fight or don't want to, or want to make money and so can claim all these other benefits without actually teaching anyone how to fight, or forcing them to spar which would cost them money(insurence) and students(people don't usually like being hurt, and people claiming fighting is 'barbaric'). and studies show wrestlers and boxers are more respectful of there fellow man than any other group of people studied(and get better grades than all other athletes and the majority of students), why is that because combat teaches you respect for your opponents abilities and being beaten destroys arrogance, what you learn in most martial arts is not respect its servitute, I have met more arrogant disrespectful traditional martial artist than anything else.

Serkan yilmaz- has won many tkd tournaments, he is 3-6 in kickboxing, and those 3 people have a combined record of 12-23, they all suck, only one of them is .500, and they're all karate fighters, he has never beaten anyone halfway decent.