If there is no evidence of God, why do you have a conscience?

Question

Refer back to the question. I'll be responding for a while.

Donna: Where did these morals come from?

Mike: Right.

Godless, let me reprase the question for you, how do humans as well as animals, have morals?

GSqueeze: You said, "It's called a sense of social responsibility and has nothing to do with some outside superpowerful force "making" me behave maorally."

Whatever you want to call it, doesn't change the fact that you cannot prove what you stated as fact when you said, morals have nothing to do with outside forces. Again, where did you get this "sense" of moral responsibility? Please don't respond again with more circular reasoning.

Smirk: You said, "Because without a conscience, humans would have killed each other off a long time ago. We evolved consciences for the betterment of our survival."

In order for conscience to evolve, as you say, it would have to first be created, or "come to be." There is not point in saying, "because without a conscience, humans would have killed themselves." That's like me saying, "without food we wouldn't be able to survive." This doesn't in anyway explain still, how food came to be, or how our conscience came to be. You also are going in circles.

Bob: Without suffering and trial, we'd all be taking the good in life for granted. Anyways, please address the question.

Luc: I'm asking that if morals weren't created, how did they come to be? Please address the question directly.

birdy: You use the same indirect approach as Luc.

alucard: In order for something to evolve, it would have to first, "come to be" or be created. You have an unreasonable faith that our conscience evolved, you have no emperical evidence that it did. Please address the question directly.

Bluto: So ignoring one's conscience prove they don't have one? Besides, you are avoiding the question and arguing against the Bible for some reason. This is not a religious debate, it's strictly theological.

poseiden: You are still avoiding the question concerning how our moral laws came to be, not how they evolved. Please answer the question directly.

rroluff: You give no support for your baseless claim.

Nathan: I do believe animals also have a conscience. This claim has no meaning either way. You don't answer my question. How can something evolve from nothing, as you claim? It can't. Evolution is a process of change in LIVING organisms. So please answer directly concerning how our conscience came to be, not how it "evolved."

Bluto: You're not understanding or answering the question directly. I do not deny moral distinctions between humans, that isn't answering anything. How did our conscience, come to be? Everyone knows what it good, and what is bad. 98% of all people believe rape is bad, even most who do it. 98% of people believe killing is bad, and not good. So once again, how did our conscience come to be, if it were not created?

giam: Right off the bat you discuss the Bible. This has nothing to do with the Bible. It's strictly a theological discussion. Obviously if you don't believe in God, then you won't believe in the Bible. We have to discuss the root of the issue.

Mable: You said, "Morals come from compassion for other people, not from god."

You can obviously prove this then, since you "know" this to be true. I'm listening.

Mable: Our conscience says, "being compassionate for others is good."

Again, where did our conscience come from?

Mountain: Prove that ignoring our conscience means we don't have one, as you claim. I'm listening. God gave us free will, that means we can CHOOSE to listen, or to ignore our conscience. You deny the possibility that someone can ignore one's conscience. For this, your entire argument is flawed.

Mountain: Read this: http://www.christianity.co.nz/moralit6.htm

This will help you understand it better.

Answer 1

Yes, I like the moral argument.

As C. S. Lewis said, “Human beings all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it.”

You see, there arises in all of us, in any culture, universal feelings of right and wrong. Wherever you go, people in every place and every walk of life, say things like: “That’s not fair.” “How would you like it if someone did that to you?” “That’s my seat, I was there first.” “Come on, you promised.” When people say things like that, they are appealing to some kind of standard of behavior which they expect the other person to know.

The other person doesn’t say, “forget your standard,” but almost always tries to make an excuse to show that they really didn’t go against the standard. As C.S. Lewis said about this standard, “...the moment anyone tells me I am not keeping it, there starts up in my mind a string of excuses as long as your arm.” You know, there are reasons why you should be let off the hook. That time you were unfair to the children was when you were very tired. That slightly shady business about the money came when you were very hard-up. You never would have promised that if you would have known how busy you were going to be. And then comes the argument between these two people. It is clear that they both believe in a standard or they couldn’t argue about it. You can’t argue that a football player committed a foul unless there is some agreement about the rules of football.

If morality is simply something learned from our culture, as they want us to believe, then why are the moral teachings of the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Hindus, Chinese, Indians, Greeks and Romans so very similar? C. S. Lewis talked a lot about this. Has there ever been a culture where people were admired for running away in battle? Or admired for being selfish? Now, they might differ about who you should be unselfish to, and men have differed on things like whether you should have one wife or four, but they have always agreed that you must not simply have any woman you liked. In the words of Thomas Mayberry, “There is broad agreement that lying, promise breaking, killing, and so on are generally wrong.”

And whenever you find someone who says they don’t believe in right or wrong, you will find them going back on it a moment later. He may break his promise to you, but if you break one to him, he will immediately be complaining “It’s not fair!” Even a thief gets upset and feels wronged when someone steals from him. As it has been said, “If there is no God, no atheist can object on moral grounds if I want to kill him.”

I had an atheist friend some years back that I would always argue creation/evolution with. One day he came in and told me how mad he got from watching a documentary on the Holocaust. I can’t remember exactly what I said, but I thought, “Why are you so mad; it’s just survival of the fittest, right? You don’t even believe there is such a thing as right and wrong.” You see, no matter how much he denies it, he feels that standard as well as I do.

So, where did it come from? We don’t see it in animals. Oh, they will sometimes act nice toward their own families and we see some reciprocal altruism—and evolutionists try to point to that as the beginnings of morality, but that is a far cry from what we see in humans. A dog doesn’t feel guilt from stealing another dog’s bone. Apes don’t sit down and talk about morals and ethics. If an ox gores a man to death, it is not arrested, tried, and condemned to the electric chair. We recognize its inability to make moral judgments and so we might just confine it in a sturdier pen and warn people to stay away. If we evolved from animals, how did we come to be moral creatures? And where did true altruism come from (that which is done without any expectation or hope for reward)?

Could non-moral matter combined with time and chance and natural selection be an adequate cause for this? If people are merely products of physical evolution and “survival of the fittest,” why do we sacrifice for each other? Where does courage, dying for a cause, love, dignity, duty, and compassion come from?

How could over $4.2 billion be raised for Hurricane Katrina-related relief and recovery? And why do we have hospitals? We should let the sick people die; we don’t want them passing on their genes. An evolutionist who is a medical doctor is really inconsistent.

How does “survival of the fittest” fit with jumping on a grenade to save your fellow soldiers? Or pushing someone out of the way to take the oncoming car yourself? It is often the strong who do these things. How can you procreate and pass your genes on to your offspring if you are dead?

This seems to be the opposite of what evolution would produce; in a struggle for survival, will the existence of a conscience help or hinder survival?

As Eric Lyons has asked, “Why are humans moral beings if, as evolutionists teach, we merely evolved from lifeless, mindless, unconscious matter over billions of years? Why do humans feel a sense of ‘ought’ to help the poor, weak, and oppressed if we simply evolved by the natural law of ‘might makes right’ (i.e., survival of the fittest)?”

And I have to agree with John Adam, “...according to the evolutionary principle of survival of the fittest, a loving human with a conscience is at a great disadvantage and would be unlikely to have survived the evolutionary process.”

It fits much better that there is a moral God who placed morals within us.

Answer 2

Your question might be valid if everybody did,but obviously they don't.Ones "conscience"cultural,and sometimes absent.If "conscience"were evidence for a god,then it,like morals,would be universal.This is clearly not the case,so,we either have multiple gods,one for each particular "conscience"and "moral"or the source of "conscience"is NOT god


Try this lets:If there is ONE god,why are their so many different sets of morals?

And you avoid me:What is a moral "law"?There is no such thing.Only a set of arbitrary laws decided upon by the culture and community.Each one differing from others.So,if there is only ONE god,and he is the source of morals,why the vast difference between cultures and people?This cannot be attributed to a SINGLE god,unless he is a god of confusion


Your argument is flawed,lets:You assume that everyone is denying their conscience if they don't follow yours.this is inaccurate.While some may "deny their conscience"as you say,many simply have a different "conscience"according to their culture.I will use myself to explain.Many are squeamish and feel guilty when killing an animal.To me,an animal is food,nothing more.I grew up slaughtering chickens,cows,and pigs.There are many people who claim it is immoral to do so.I am not IGNORING my conscience,it(for me)is neither moral nor immoral,it is getting food.Now,for there to be ONE god,morals would be absolute.So,if you agree with me that animals are just food,you show morals are not absolute.If you DISAGREE,you show morals are not absolute.Consider the sociopath.Studies show that their blood pressure never rises,pulse doesn't quicken.If they were IGNORING their conscience,that would NOT be the case.No matter how you try,you cannot demonstrate a "moral law"Morals,and conscience,are the product of culture

Answer 3

It is a very good question, “Why do we have a conscience?” I have struggled with this myself. I will give you an earnest answer.

You struck on a possible answer by noting that animals also show similar behaviors. I believe you will find that behaviors which improve a group’s chance of passing on its genes are nicely explained by the theory of evolution.

Groups benefit from compassion. It is to the advantage of wolves that they do not eat their young. Any pack where this behavior appeared, do to mutation, would be at a disadvantage, and less likely to pass on that mutation.

Behavior clearly has some organic causes. Hunger is a clear example of this. It drives a wolf to eat, but obviously that urge must be limited, or it would threaten the survival of that wolf’s genes. Man's behaviors are genetically influenced in a similar way.

Answer 4

Why do you assume it must be a God? I think only cultural conditioning predisposes some people to think that morality, emotions, and consciousness are only explained by God. Its not an explanation either though. It is only saying this is mysterious to me and since I don't know it must be a supernatural deity. Consciousness could be evolved and adaptive to us living together peacefully in social groups that benefits the group survival and prosperity. Animals exhibit basic emotions. They love and care for young, some mate for life, they share resources, and some appear to mourn the death of others. I think conscience can be explained by understanding and realizing that your actions may have negative consequences for yourself or others. Since we don't want other people to behave in ways toward us that are harmful or hurtful we experience a guilty conscience when we act in ways that hurt others because we know its wrong to do what we wouldn't like done to ourselves. Its wrong in the sense if everyone went around acting without thought to consequence we would all get hurt and society would collapse. You don't need a deity belief to explain this realization. I'm pretty sure my dobermann doesn't have a god concept and could tear my throat out and take my steak but yet she doesn't but rather sits by me and looks longingly at my plate. According to some theists there is no reason without belief in god why she wouldn't just tear my throat out and take my steak.

When you say consciousness couldn't evolve until it came to be or anything until it first arose you are making an argument from ignorance. Ultimately, we don't have the answer to how the first life arose or evolved or how food first came to be. It would be faulty logic to assume however, since we don't know it must be a supernatural creator. Also, how did this supernatural creator begin or arise? Or do you opt them out of logic with a wave of the wand and the old "the creator always was" statement that isin't based on any evidence? All you have here is one theory with no evidence where there are other possible and in some people's minds more logical natural explanations. Afterall people used to think lightening came from Zeus.

Answer 5

This is an easy one. conscience is based upon altruism and many animals show altruistic behaviours because it

a) helps propogate their own genes
b) increases social standing with in the group and thus helps point a
c) increases the chance of reciprocated altruism i.e. benefits from others.
d) also rewards the brain in terms of various chemicals. Many perform good deeds out of selfishness.

Conscience is merely an evolutionary development of this. We feel guilty about bad behaviour because it then impacts on the plus points I have mentioned above. Conscience is merely our brain's way of telling us that we are hindering ourself within a group.

Altruism is seen in various species of ape and if you search for Battle of Kruger on You Tube you will see an amazing demonstration of altruism by a herd of Buffalo in Africa as the rescue a young Buffalo from Lions.

I wonder whether Christians suffered from a bad conscience when they were burning all those witches, or killing those Satan worshipping Indians, or slaughtering the blacks in Africa during colonial times?

BIG EDIT What do you say about the accepted answer? It is an evolutionary advantage to have a conscience. It doesn't need a God.

ANOTHER EDIT - I'm referring back to the question but you refuse to address my answer because you can't refute it.

Answer 6

So humanity can not love one another without some sort of being nor can function without someone or something telling us to do so without the punishment of hell? Although hell was/is designed for those that don't believe in god. Wow that's sad people can't believe humanity can do things on their own. God creates all sorts of morals even the ones to kill people by stone and whatever possible means yet that is morals from god... Well of course the good ones anyway.

"Thou shall no kill", looking at that rule has me believing if anyone needed this then god did not do a good job at creating humans.

I mean what would be the point of creating a specie and putting evil in the mix for "free will"? Then to pray or believe to god that he would handle them only during his time and not on earth while the actual act of hate for or towards another human is happening.

Christians are really lost people lol, without a deity they aren't a thing this is by the many christians who throw this statement and dramatic act out there to those of whom do not believe the christian deity and nonbeliever of any deity . They are supposedly happy believing in a god so much in fact so they question others about how they live their life especially if those people aren't living in a hostile, vindictive, vengeful, greedy and etc manner. They go so far to suspect that those people actually believe or heard of their christ (but are being defiant) and that is why they aren't doing things that we shouldn't upon others.

God allowed slavery didn't care it is to be shown it was acceptable in the new testament. I will not allow myself to praise such a monster of that nature.

I don't get why should or would anyone would be willing to be subjective to abuse from a guy that dishes out "good" and "evil" and tell me that is our creator and he can do whatever he wants. Should children stand abuse by their biological father just because he helped your mom create and bring you in to this world? Of course the answer would be "he's not god but he is the important factor for you coming into this world" or some other BS...

This "god" whom god created us; created us from dust or dirt and ribs of a man... I honestly rather come from an animal than to be made out of ribs. Perhaps I should go about playing in the dirt to find me a good man >.>

Answer 7

I believe that this "conscience" of which you speak refers back to two sources. One is internal, the other is external. The internal force has to do with hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. You would only survive if you helped your fellow hunter-gatherers, and the "conscience" developed as an evolutionary mechanism to ensure that people had discouragement from doing bad things which would hurt the tribe/clan/whatever. Also the external mechanism stems from indoctrination from society. It is ingrained into most young people from birth that stealing etc. is wrong and this flows with our internal "conscience."

Answer 8

The Ten Commandments - God's mandate to His people through Moses - specifically says "Thou shalt not....."

We are taught these morals, laws, whatever others care to call them, and we learn therefrom that when we fall into any of those traps, we are doing wrong. That's where our consciences click in. We are born innocent - unable to determine right from wrong. Our parents only pass on what they know and, in many instances, they teach us the wrong they learned as well. So then, where is the conscience-factor from our parents?

It matters not how many times He is denied and cussed, God dictated how we were to behave toward our fellow-man and when we fall short in that regard, we know because He said so!

There is no need to 'see' God to believe. Why do we believe that the wind blows? Yet, it does and we can never say we 'saw' the wind because we would be lying. There are so many analogies which could be put forward but, why bother?

God said "...and love thy neighbour as thyself." When I don't love my neighbour, I treat them unkindly, I kill them, I steal from them, I covet their property, etc. When I do love them, I do the opposite. My conscience does not bother me when I do the latter.

Answer 9

This question angers me.

Morals come from compassion for other people, not from god. If you need a consequence in order to do the right thing, what kind of a person does that make you?

EDIT: It comes from knowing pain, and not wanting to cause anyone pain.
We'll use murder as an example. I would not kill anyone because I know how much pain it causes. I know how much it hurts to be in physical pain. I know what its like to have someone I know and love die. I know it would cause a lot of different types of pain to a lot of people. I do not want to be the cause of pain and suffering so I don't kill people.
You would not kill someone because if you do, god will send you to burn for all eternity. But not if you repent after wards.

Answer 10

There HAS to be a God. Without THE MOST HIGH, OMNIPOTENT, ALL POWERFUL GOD, we as humans can do no good or have no morals, and standards on our own. Why is that you say? He is the giver of all Good things!


I also love the people who compare us to animals. When are you going to realize that HUMANS are created in the image of God, not animals!

Answer 11

Not everybody suffers from feeling guilty over the same things, this is because it is formed by our upbringing, if I was raised to think that killing was ok, my conscience wouldn't eat at me, how does this prove god exists? It just means our personality is also a product in part of our upbringing.