Complaints about religious content have led to...?

Question

The U.S. government has banned the flag-folding recitations at all 125 national cemeteries. The banning came as the result of one complaint. The situation is similar to that in which one person removed prayer from schools.
This article from The Associated Press explains the situation:
Complaints about religious content have led to a ban on flag-folding recitations by Veterans Administration employees and volunteers at all national cemeteries.
At thousands of military burials, VA volunteers have folded the American flag 13 times and recited the significance of each fold to survivors. The 11th fold glorifies "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” The 12th glorifies "God the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost."
Citing a need for uniformity, the National Cemetery Administration has prohibited unpaid VA volunteers as well as employees from conducting the recital at all 125 national cemeteries.

Your thoughts, please....

Answer 1

A government that shows preference to no religion is best for everyone including theists.

Of all the questions posted here this type is by far the most disheartening. Especially now the danger of a particular religion having too much influence on government should be obvious.

Prayer has not been "removed" from schools. Students are free to pray as much as they like so long as it does not disturb class. School led prayer is thankfully gone just as it should be.

Do you truly want to live in a country where the dominant religion makes the decisions? Can you not see the danger in the precedent? If tomorrow the dominant religion were Scientology and the 12th fold glorified Xenu would you argue in favor of that also? And would you welcome back school led prayer if it were to Xenu and not god?

Answer 2

The only real semi-legit link I could find is on Michelle Malkin's weblog...while she's posted BS in the past, at least this is a third-party backup to the asker's claim: http://michellemalkin.com/2007/10/27/flag-folding-recitations-now-banned-at-national-cemeteries/
This post links to a military times website article, which is quoting an AP article, but oddly enough, when one searches for the story on AP.org, nothing comes up....seems kinda strange, doesn't it? From the best I can determine, the story only exists on MT and various right-wing weblogs....

As an atheist, I'd rather not have such words spoken over me as I was being buried, but I think it's awfully stupid to ban other people from having that ceremony if their family so desires. I've only been to a couple of military funerals, and have never heard this ceremony recited before, but even if I did it would not be my place to complain. Interestingly enough, the complaint wasn't about god in general, it was about the JEWISH gods specifically:

"The complaint revolved around the narration in the 11th fold, which celebrates Jewish war veterans and “glorifies the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.”"

I don't think they'll be able to pin this one on us atheists.

Personally, I think that anybody who has laid down their life in service to this great nation deserves whatever words they want to be spoken over their casket. I'll be the last person in america to raise a complaint, that's for sure.

Answer 3

If they're doing it under the auspices of the federal government, invocation of the Judeo-Christian God is inappropriate. The recitation is unofficial and appears NOWHERE in the Flag Code.

The thirteen folds HAVE no official significance; that was made up long after someone noted that it takes 13 folds to properly put the flag into the triangular "cased" form.

Take it from someone who has folded and presented the colors for more than one comrade-in-arms.

MSgt, USAF (Retired)

P.S. to Confirmed Atheist below: Okay, I'm open-minded too. If the next of kin (NOK) requests it and the VA employees or volunteers are completely free to decline (It would be unjust to coerce someone into making a Judeo-Christian pronouncement as a condition of their employment/volunteerism), I have no objection to it being done and any offended attendees can go whistle. It would be analogous to a military chaplain presiding over a service.

Answer 4

The ninth fold is a tribute to womanhood; for it has been through their faith, love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women
who have made this country great have been molded.

The tenth fold is a tribute to father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of our country since they were first born.

The eleventh fold, in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies,
in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.


The twelfth fold, in the eyes of a Christian citizen, represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son,
and Holy Ghost.

When the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost, reminding us of our national motto, "In God we Trust."

http://www.mer.cap.gov/flag.htm

I am about as anti-christian as one can get. I am also a vet. While I have no problem with recognizing the service of Jews and christians, if they can not also recognize the rest of us they should not recognize any of us. I served this nation as honorably as any Jew or christian did. I love the Divine Mother/Father as much or more than the earthly ones. I think if this was recited over my casket I would raise out of it in indignation and smite the lot of them.

Answer 5

I think that those that wish to have those words spoken at their funeral should be able to have them, but it should be something requested by that person or their next of kin. It shouldn't automatically be done. I understand the violation of church & state issues, which is why I don't say that the rule is silly. But following the law to the letter means removing all spiritual services performed, including chaplains, weddings, and prayer groups. I'm not in favor of this, as I believe people should be able to worship as they want. I just don't think that it should be performed uniform for all. Perhaps they could tailor the recitiations to reflect the beliefs of the person being buried?

Edit: Rob, I agree with you, they don't. But it has been and become a tradition that many parents, spouses, and somethimes even children expect as they lay their loved ones to rest. I'm also an atheist, and I see your perspective. Technically, you're right, 100%. But you know as well as I know that many of our fellow servicemembers (I'm also a vet of this particular "war") don't have the resources for burial outside of our national cemetaries, and quite a few consider it their rightful honor to rest in one of our national cemetaries. Some of them expect that ceremony.

I could just take the stance that they should get used to it, that part is over, but I can see another perspective, that of those that actually WANT the recitations during their burial. I think they should be allowed to have it.

Answer 6

This is not urban legend as some have stated, it is a factual bit of information. For those that are citing freedom of religion...this is not freedom of religion it is denying the rights to religion. Families should be given a choice as to whether or not they want the recitation or not. If my son died fighting for his country, he would tell you that he died for GOD and country, not the country alone. Why should he NOT be allowed this final expression of his faith? I can understand it not being done for everyone, but it shouldn't be banned altogether. What is going to be next? Will the pastor/priest/cleric be forbidden to speak at veterans funerals because what they say may be seen as offensive? I can also understand the position that active military should not recite this, but demanding that civil veteran volunteers refrain from reciting it as well clearly violates their constitutional right to free speech and freedom of religion. It is sad what this nation is becoming. Our forefathers would be ashamed.

Answer 7

Why do you have to associate "God" with the national flag of a "supposed" secular country. I fully agree with the decision. God has no place being associated with a national flag.

Answer 8

i think of it by no ability could have been an element of the flag ceremony to start with. i do no longer think of it grew to become into ever stable to tutor the Flag, Pledge of Allegiance or the distant places funds into the non secular Relics of one chosen non secular sect. i detect the assumption of the Flag getting used to honour any faith's doctrines merely appalling. it is the Flag of the country. it is not a rag for the non secular to smear their faiths on. -------- the situation for those conversing approximately individual decision is that the Flag ceremony carried out by using officers of the Governments defense force is an decent assertion of non secular perception by using the State. be conscious that the clarification at the back of proscribing the volunteers from doing it grew to become into to maintain a uniform code of training.

Answer 9

You know something? I'm all about secularism, but if the person who has died is religious and would appreciate this at their funeral, I think that it should be allowed. Our soldiers deserve to have the funerals they desire most, don't you think? This isn't an issue of religion being shoved down our throats, in my opinion, and I'm not religious at all.

Answer 10

While this doesn't particularly offend me as a non-religious american, I fully support seperation of church and state. For all you religious folks, keep in mind that this law protects religion just as much as it does government.

I think that the family of the person being buried should decide whether or not they want religion in their ceremony, and how much.