What do you think of this scripture?

Question

2 Nephi 2: 22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.
25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

And I know it's not in the bible, so if you can handle that and still give an answer, please do so.

Answer 1

ah, so many plain and simple truths in four verses... and amazing the depth of understanding which allows Nephi to be so concise in his words.
First, the phrase, not included in this scripture that so many are struggling with the commandment from God to 'multiply and replenish the earth': for those who know -- we understand this is a demonstration and testimony that Adam and Eve were married according to the laws of God. This phrase is part of the wedding ceremony.
The Garden of Eden was a place where Adam could walk and talk with God on earth. He could receive instruction [scripture]. This earth life is a probationary state. Adam's presence in Eden, too, was probationary. Or temporary. Because Adam was no longer in the constant presence of God [as he had been before being given his body], it was a matter of time before he trangressed. Adam was not going to be perfect here in this life. None of us are. In the Garden, Adam and Eve were innocent, like little children. How they would have progressed without the fall, we do not know. The fall, simply, was falling from the presence of God. God cannot abide sin. Because Adam and Eve transgressed, God couldn't abide their presence without repentence and redemption [and so, the plan required a Savior].
Nephi also refers to the eternal law of opposites. To know good, one must understand evil. To know the difference between hot and cold, one must experience them. Without experiencing the making of wrong choices, Adam and Eve could never have learned the joy of making correct or righteous choices and would have forever remained in a state of innocence.
[Ok, I'm going to stop here, as I'm sure it's really long already, but a thorough discussion of these simple verses could and have filled volumes.]
Oh, one last thing. An understanding of 'joy'. Joy isn't simply being in the presence of God - there is beauty and peace in his presence and love... but joy -- the joy as God experiences and as He wants us to learn, is the joy of posterity -- and posterity which chooses righteousness and progression. That is the glory and joy of God -- and the glory and joy which awaits each one of God's children who choose to seek after righteousness and turn from all wickedness.

Answer 2

Adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy.

I think this scripture explains a lot of questions people might have.

My thought on this scripture is like so:

God is so good, that he couldn't put us through mortal pain. So he designed a plan in which men would have to bring pain upon themselves. Its pretty simple. God put Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, knowing full well what would happen there. (He knows all). He commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, but in their innocent and constant state they could not do so. When Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit, it was a transgression. It was going against the word of God, and now they were in a fallen state, and able to fulfill God's first commandment.

It wasn't a sin, because if you remember, they did not yet know right from wrong. It was however, a transgression, because Adam and Eve had been TOLD not to partake of the fruit. If you remember, in Genesis it says that Eve saw that the fruit was good for food. She was beguiled and lied to and she didn't know what was right or wrong, so she can't really be blamed.

This is why the LDS church doesn't believe we are responsible for Adam's transgression. We are only responsible for our own sins. We couldn't control what Adam and Eve did, so why should we be punished for it? Christ already paid for our sins through the atonement.

Sorry, that was long!

Answer 3

Philosophically speaking, It is true that to fully understand Joy, one would have to experience it's opposite. I believe that is what will make humans a little higher than angels in heaven. We will have experienced what they could only watch. The pain, the suffering, and the wickedness of this earth.

Personally, I do not believe that is why God allowed man to fall. I believe He allowed man to sin, so that all beings (angel, man and any other creations God has made) could see how sin destroys and erodes what God has created. There will be no doubt that God has our best interest at heart with His rules, once People are resurrected. Sin will not come up a second time in the new heaven and new earth.

Update: have some missed the fact that it says up there.... if ADAM had not sinned. It didn't state anything about EVE. If Eve had sinned and Adam had not, then "go forth and multiply " might not have been something God would have wanted due to Eve's sin passing onto all future generations. Just a thought.

Answer 4

Looking at most of the answers here makes me sad. It's almost heart breaking to know that many have been so embedded with false doctrines that the truth sounds foolish. Adam fell that men might be...
Eve had already partaken of the fruit. Adam ate of it also to obey what Heavenly Father had commanded. If Eve was cast out of the Garden Adam could not have multiplied, or clung to his wife. Both were commandments from God.
I see no fault in the scripture. Nephi always did speak in plainness.

Answer 5

To me, this means that without the fall, we wouldn't have experienced true joy. We can't understand what true joy is unless we have experienced the opposite. We wouldn't understand those feelings to know what they were.

It also tells me that it's possible we wouldn't be on earth. Since Adam and Eve were as little children and didn't understand the commandment to Multiply replenish wouldn't have been understood. We don't know what would have happened if they would have stayed in the garden and wouldn't have eaten the fruit, but progression would have been much slower, and maybe not possible at all. We just don't know.

I could go on and on about these versus. But I think it's long enough now. Good versus though!!!

Answer 6

Basically it is telling us that it was God's plan for man to fall so that we learn about these things. There are christians who defend this position and I also believe that. Atheist like to claim that God's plan fell apart when Adam and Eve sinned, and how did an omnipotent God not know that this was going to happen. But it was God's plan because this life is for teaching us and preparing us for the next life. How would we know God's goodness or greatness, or how could we know true happiness if we haven't experienced sadness and despair. This world wasn't designed to be perfect and God's plan wasn't ruined by Adam and Eve's choices, this is all going according to his plan. If we focus on God and the next life then what do the things of this life really matter? And that's why the atheist has so many problems with God because they think that this life is all important.

I do agree with those that say that Adam and Eve were commanded to be fruitful and multiply so they would have had children anyway. But I don't know if this would be considered false, because in reality there was no alternative so the scripture may not be stating that part as a fact but as what the alternative would have been if God had chosen it to be that way. This is not a muslim idea, it come from one of the so called "lost books of the bible"

I am not saying that God made Adam and Eve sin, but God did make Adam and Eve spiritually weak and capable of sinning and he knew that they would fall to the temptation because of that weakness. So it was his design that set up the fall, but Adam and Eve still made the choice to sin and could have resisted but sooner or later they would have given into the temptation because they were not strong enough spiritually to resist it. Life is that way today, we all have certain sins or temptations that we struggle with (God designed us that way) and every time we face that temptation we have a choice to resist it but most of us are not strong enough to resist them. It's only because of God that we can resist temptation and if we choose to rely on him we can overcome them but we will never overcome those temptations on our own, maybe once and awhile but eventually the temptation will overcome us and we will give in.

Answer 7

There are other scriptures out there that confirm the truth of what this scripture is saying. In the book of mormon, Alma goes into deeper discriptions about what this scripture means. and actually explains it against people trying to discredit him, and does a great job. It starts setting it up in alma chapter 10, and spends the next 2 chapters setting it up, and than in chapter 12 it is explained even better.

The book of mormon is true, and is the word of god. Joseph smith was a prophet, and he translated it. And it stands together with the bible to give us the whole picture.
To those who say a bible a bible, we have got a bible, there cannot be any other scripture, read 2 nephi, 29.

Answer 8

The key to this scripture is that they were in an innocent state. God knew that eventually they would partake of the forbidden fruit, lose their innocence and then ultimately fulfill the multiply and replenish commandment. Complete joy cannot be known unless you have the opposite for comparison. Our joy comes from learning to live by faith and learning to make correct choices, based upon the guidance we receive from those that have gone before us and the mistakes we make as we exercise our own agency.
There could be no progress in the Garden of Eden until agency was exercised. Agency began with the choice to eat of the forbidden fruit in opposition to the commandment not to eat thereof.

Answer 9

It's truth.
It can be hard for some to grasp the concept that maybe, just maybe the fall was something that was planned and needed.

I wonder if it ever occured to the "go forth and multiply and replenish the earth" crowd that those were instructions for Adam and Eve, but that something had to be done before they could actually go forth and do that. God will not always tell us point blank what we should do and how we should do it, because it's up to us to make the decision and act for ourselves and not be acted upon. So yes, God said to multiply and replenish the earth, but I think He knew that they had to choose to sin before that could be possible, and that He couldn't/wouldn't tell them to sin, because then it wouldn't be a sin. They had to go off and figure it out on their own.

Answer 10

Mormon belief, isn't it?

As to the subject, I do not believe that they had no joy, but lived in a state of joy in the presence of God. The knowledge of good and evil came from the fall, and it was not so that they could know joy. If anything, they lacked joy because of it. God is love. Joy and happiness are feelings that can not be manifested at will, but is experienced as a result of loving and being loved. Could this be a reason for us being created in His image? Why the first few commandments are about us loving God? Are we His joy, just as our children and grandchildren are to us? Something to think about...