How can atheists defend their record?

Question

Religion is constantly accused on this forum and elsewhere, of being a cause of conflict and war. However, atheism and policies based on atheistic principles have an appalling record of crimes against humanity.
Hitler, although he is best described as a pantheist occultist, used atheistic, evolutionary principles to formulate and justify his eugenic and ‘master race’ policies. Countless millions were brutally slaughtered as a result, including 6 million Jews. The atheistic regimes of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ceaucesco, Honicker etc. together murdered at least 38 million people, making the century of the great atheist experiment, the most bloodthirsty and brutal in the history of the world. Even today, the atheist inspired ethics of our secular society ensure that the slaughter continues with the sanitised killing of millions of innocent unborn babies in abortion mills and embryo experimentation labs.

The ring of debris around Uranus - - - You're wrong - - get your facts straight.
Hitler was not a Catholic, he was brought up as one as a child, but rejected it as an adult.

Mein Campf - - means 'my struggle' based on the purported evolutionary struggle in the natural world. Hitler was an avid devotee of the perpetrator of the embryonic recapitulation fraud, Ernst Haeckel.

Dreamstuff Entity - - -
Answer the question.
We already know what religions are accused of, we hear about these things ad infinitum. So why did you not answer the question?

Comrade Abdul Hassan - -
So why did the atheist dictators persecute and murder religious believers, because of their religion?

that_guy...
Read the question. I didn't say Hitler was an atheist, but he based his eugenics and master race theories on atheistic, evolutionary principles. described as

kent_sha...
The communist states were the world's first self-proclaimed atheist states. So yes! they are indicative of atheistic rule.
The atheistic influence on our secular society is the driving force behind the legitimisation of the appalling slaughter of unborn babies by the multi-million dollar abortion industry. The vast majority of pro-lifers are Christians.

LakynInf...
I said countless millions were killed, including six million Jews, so you are the Dolt. There is no doubt that Hitler's eugenics program and his racial policies. was based on the evolutionary doctrine that some races were superior (i.e. more evolved than others). Darwin and his supporters believed that Aborigines were sub-human, and many were murdered and their bodies stolen for research because of this so-called scientific belief.

Goldcoll...
You read your history, may I suggest you read 'The Persecution of the Catholic Church in the Third Reich' published in 1935 by Burns Oates.
The Catholic Church was persecuted by the Nazis, that is a very funny thing for a Catholic to do.

Spirit Wanderer - -
These are the only examples we have had of atheism and atheistic principles in practice on the world stage, so they are the only examples we can judge atheism from, and in every single case they stink.

Terry M - - -
For your information the book - - 'The Persecution of the Catholic Church in the Third Reich' was written in the 1930's long before the extent of Hitler's atrocities were known about. It was not written as a denial, or to excuse the Church from any blame for Hitler's policies, it was written as an historical record of the Nazi persecution of Catholics at that time, and it documents many examples of violence against Catholics, attacking of churches, breaking up of meetings. There are examples of anti-Catholic propaganda cartoons in it, similar to those produced against the Jews, they also insinuate that the Cathloic Church was in league with the Jews.
So you should look at the real, objective history written at the time, not the predjudiced propaganda and revisionist history written long after the event by those who are hostile to the Catholic Church.

Answer 1

All you've proven is that humanity is capable of great atrocities, whether supported by religious doctrine or atheistic principles.

It isn't religion or non-religion that causes suffering, it is the human being who does, and they will continue to do so whether they have a "good" excuse for it or not. It is human nature.

Answer 2

1) Hitler was a Teutonic Christian, not an Atheist.
2) There are no Darwinian ideas that can be properly associated with eugenics, since evolution makes no absolute claims about better or worse adaption. An adaption is only better or worse in relation to the environment the species has to function in. Evolution also makes no claim one way or the other about a deity, and is therefore not inherently atheistic.
3) You conflate the absolutism of communism with secular atheism, they are not remotely the same.
4) You arbitrarily define a fetus/embryo as a "child", and then call abortion slaughter.

Thus, each of your points is a form of the fallacy "straw man argument" or "begging the question"

Edit: The communist states were the first self proclaimed atheistic states? Look up Ashoka, the Indian Buddhist King.

Answer 3

Wow, this is a biggie. I don't think your binary split is helful, and don't really know what the question is. People certainly do blame religion for many of the world's ills, but I don't think that they say atheism is a more peaceful alternative, and your list of wrongdoers (perhaps a slightly mild term) is ample evidence of that. It is simply that the world is a dangerous place in spite of religion - the good that is done by religion seems to be eclipsed by the bad stuff ( feed a few people vs. genocide). Atheists, not believing in a 'super power' who can be used as an item of faith, tend to have a logic to their arguments, however twisted or misguided. Reigious strife always boild down to 'my god's better than your god' and there's no argument you can bring against this because there is no god in the first place. Atheistically based arguments may be wrong - aryan supremacy at the extreme - but at least they have twisted facts that can be disproved at their root. Arguing agaist God is a non-doable job as theists will always produce 'facts' that are no more facts than are fairies down the garden.

Nevertheless, your opening assertion is true both in that religion is a cause of conflict and this is asserted frequently on this forum. Your second assertion is also true in that atheists have also done some terrible things. It seems to me that if everybody stopped wearing any labels and just treated each other like they'd want to be treated, we'd all be able to rub along in some sort of consensus.

Answer 4

At least atheists work alone as single individuals. Normally with the add of the religious.
They are not organised religious bodies hell bent on ruling the world no matter how many people they have to kill in the process.
You mention Darwin and the aborigines, it wasn`t quite as bad as the Spanish catholics and the Incas!
Hitler was a catholis, and if you got all the facts the catholics started the jewish persecution in Croasia. Hitler also had meetings with the pope.
Burns Oates is a catholic publisher and no doubt would issue the usual catholic deniels, that we are all use to.
It is amazing that after the fall of communism, it transpires that a large number of the officials were in fact christians!
As to abortion, if so many christian girls didn`t go for abortions there wouldn`t be as many!

Answer 5

Hitler was a catholic and the Nazis were almost all Lutheran, Stalin was trained to become a Jesuit Priest. Pol Pot was raised as a strict Buddhist in a theistic Buddhist culture.
One of the greatest recent jokes is Mother Theresa's praise for Poppa Doc. Duvalier.
Lets not have any more of these Evil Atheist slurs or you will get a slew of historically accurate posts on the religions of the great political monsters.

If you want to point fingers at a baby killer open your bible again and read up on what God orders the Jews to do over and over.
Do you know the last verse to the psalm "By The Rivers Of Babylon" (psalm 137 I think)

Edit
Don't be stupid, Hitler never rejected his religion and it never rejected him. Adolf Hitler died a devout Catholic. Read your history.

Answer 6

Wow. I am amazed at the stupidity and ignorance of your question (and all the supposed details that follow it!).You really have been brainwashed, if you are using these statements as facts. Especially the one about Hitler, he was never atheist. While rejecting catholicism, he did embrace other aspects of christianity, which says a lot really.

Unlike the cults of christianity, islam, etc, Atheism is a lack of belief in "god". It doesn't involve any listening to stories from the dark ages; praying to non-existent bigotted, bi-polar sky fairies; or any other such rubbish.

To say that the likes of Lenin, Stalin, etc killed these poor innocent people in the name of atheism is frankly uneducated, biased,and prejudiced. How can you kill someone under the guise of non-belief?! Its as believable as walking on water!

The churches (and other religions) have been responsible for more acts of murder, bullying, abuse, bigotry, homophobia, misogyny and hatred over the years. What makes it worse is the fact that it is done under the banner of being caring, sharing and non-judgemental!

Well, what absolute crap!

Answer 7

1) These people killed because they were messed up. I've heard this argument used so many times, and one of the replies were "Hitler and Stalin both had moustaches, ergo all men who have moustaches are insane". See how ridiculous it is.

2) It is only because of population levels and technology that allows mass numbers to be killed. Therefore the time in history is important. I have no doubt the number of people who have died due to religion would be much higher if they had the bodies to kill and the technology to do it compared to the last 100years. A gun is more efficient than a sword.

Answer 8

1. Atheists are not a political party or a religion. They do not have to defend what anybody else does, or did, because it is not done in their name

2. I don't think I have ever seen any atheist on R&S defending the horrible things that happen in the world.

3. As far as I am aware, no war has ever been fought in the name of atheism.

4. As far as I an aware, even if the people you name were atheists, I don't think any of them acted in the way they did just because they were atheists. They were just horrible, callous, despicable people.

5. Right now, I can think of several places in the world where religion is the main difference between violent factions. I can't think of one where people are taking up arms against their fellow man in the name of atheism.

Answer 9

Hitler, although he is best described as a pantheist occultist, used atheistic, evolutionary principles to formulate and justify his eugenic and ‘master race’ policies. Countless millions were brutally slaughtered as a result, including 6 million Jews. The atheistic regimes of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ceaucesco, Honicker etc. together murdered at least 38 million people, making the century of the great atheist experiment, the most bloodthirsty and brutal in the history of the world. Even today, the atheist inspired ethics of our secular society ensure that the slaughter continues with the sanitised killing of millions of innocent unborn babies in abortion mills and embryo experimentation labs.

Answer 10

The things you describe such as communism and fascism are not based upon 'atheistic' principles. Atheism is simply the belief that there is no god.

Evolution? Yes Hitler used it as an excuse. Yes other people have used religion as an excuse. If they want to go to war or commit genocide they'll always think of an excuse.

BTW, evolution is not 'atheistic'. As for 'killing millions of innocent unborn babies' I'm not even going to bother to answer that.

EDIT: Mein Kampf means 'My Struggle', yes. He originally wanted to call it 'A Four-Year Struggle against Lies, Hypocrisy and Treason', which doesn't fit in with your reasoning there.