perception and interpretation?

Question

John 10:30 " I and my father are one" - This could be interpreted by logic as meaning Jesus thought of himself at one with Gods word.
John 14:9 " he who has seen me , has seen the father" - he that follows me will see the father
john 14:6 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life;no one comes to the father, except through me - I am the teacher of truth, of a way of life, the only way to heaven is by following my teachings ( his word)

these excerts are given as evidence to Jesus' divinity, but it is all down to the interpretation of the reader. What do you make of this? do you see another interpretation of this text?


please share your thoughts

Screwdriver; this is the point, these verses can be interpreted and translated differently to that of the churches explanation. This is something that a person today can question. The "church founded by Jesus" does not exist, what we have now is the Pauline interpretation. The text has been interpreted to fulfil the doctrine of the church and not the the other way round. It is important for Christians to step back and look again at the bible with an open mind to the text, they need to put their faith in the church to one side and look at the evidence with open eyes, this is the only way to interpret the word of the bible without religious bias.

Screwdriver; this is the point, these verses can be interpreted and translated differently to that of the churches explanation. This is something that a person today can question. The "church founded by Jesus" does not exist, what we have now is the Pauline interpretation. The text has been interpreted to fulfil the doctrine of the church and not the the other way round. It is important for Christians to step back and look again at the bible with an open mind to the text, they need to put their faith in the church to one side and look at the evidence with open eyes, this is the only way to interpret the word of the bible without religious bias.

Ibrahim, I accept that which is why I have another question relating to this one touching on the subject of translation

Jesus was seen as a Prophet by his followers, the Gospels of Thomas, Barnabas, and Judas all refer to him as such. Jesus was a relation of John the Baptist, upon Johns death, Jesus took over his teachings. This is the real Jesus, this is the Jesus the church denies.

Answer 1

I mea if you were to take Just John then yes, you would get the opinion that - Yes, Jesus is God.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30-31
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:38-39
The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.

John 14:9
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Colossians 1:16
For by him [Jesus] were all things created.

Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
God was made manifest in the flesh.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Revelation 1:17
Fear not; I am the first and the last.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

But if you look at the other disciples, they seem to singing from a different hymnbook... they seem to say - No, Jesus is not God.

Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

but wait, if John is all the work of one author, why then does he too then contracdict himself? for he too says No, Jesus is not God.

John 8:40
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God.

John 14:28
My Father is greater than I.

John 20:17
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Acts 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

1 Corinthians 11:3
The head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Colossians 3:1
Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

So all in all, like most subjects in the book, its a muddle, at best, a book of half truths and contradictions designed to confuse the poor fools guliable enough to swallow the idea of religion!

Answer 2

john 14:6 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life;no one comes to the father, except through me."

All of the scriptures you present follow this Rule or Principle!

It is based on the I Am That I Am

Consider - That The name of God is "I Am That I Am" now consider that we are all the children of God, created in his image and likeness and that the body we inhabit is created such that it symbolizes those facts.

Jesus the human man symbolizes the above facts, as The Christ he symbolizes the spiritual fact that we are all the children of God and that this is really who and what we are.

Then when he says the above words it means that the "I Am That I Am" is the way the truth and the life and that I Jesus as the Christ symbolize these facts. By Jesus (as The Christ) saying that he has literally embeded that truth into physical/material existence for everyone that resides on this planet.

Gleaning understanding from that you would have to state that whatever you say is a form of edict that will eventually outpicture itself in the world (The Earth) of form in which you find yourself presently.

What you must remember is that the text is from the King James Version - What did King James Tell the scribes that translated the texts into English?

How many languages are the various texts written in?
What are those languages?
Can all of them be identically translated into English?

Consider that the meaning of "Meek" is actually moderation or moderate and that there are 3 possible translations of that Aramaic word into English!

Answer 3

My interpretations :
John 10:30 " I and my (the) father are one"
... Jesus is saying to the Pharisees that he and Joseph Caiaphas ( the Chief Priest / Most High Priest ) are in agreement regarding Jesus’ status.

John 14:9 " he who has seen me , has seen the father" - he that follows me will see the father.
... Jesus is telling Phillip ( and Thomas ) that he is the official proxy of Joseph Caiaphas and they should follow him as if he were the Chief Priest. Jesus says they will get to see Caiaphas if they join up with him.

John 14:6 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life;no one comes to the father, except through me - I am the teacher of truth, of a way of life, the only way to heaven is by following my teachings ( his word)
... Again , Jesus is asserting his authority as Joseph Caiaphas’ right hand man . If you want to get into the high priest hood – Jesus can tell you what to do. If you want to get into the ‘ Most High Place ‘ ( where the ark of the covenant is kept ) – then Jesus can help you.


Once you remove the supernatural elements and read the texts as they were written – ie: allegorical and read them in relation to a 1st century Jewish Religious / Political power struggle , the texts seems to make a lot more sense to me . But I guess my Brian is wired differently to Christians .

Answer 4

A human needs many things in life!
Two of these things are most important to have a successful and meaningful journey! A "Shield" and a "Sword"!

1. The "Shield" that man must carry is called "Faith", this helps man repel those things that are not necessary in life.
2. The "Sword" that man must carry is called "Wisdom", this allows man to discern Truth from falsehood.
Seeing the Truth within ones life, helps man to avoid the potholes that lie on the path man must travel to come to an understanding of the relationship between man and God.

Wisdom is what is needed to understand these teachings, that have been passed down from the life and times of Jesus (PBUH).

"May we all seek Wisdom!"
"Peace be always with you."

Answer 5

As salaamu 'alaikym, my friend.

Insha'Allah, Why are you still quoting from an "English" translation of ohter translations, etc.? The New Testament was written in biblical Greek, which will lead you to a different understanding of the implied meaning as well as shed some light on to what was written when, the number of different person who wrote each document, etc.

Insha'Allah, until you actully take the time to begin to truly study these works, it will just be a case of the "blind leading (and disagreeing with) the blind". Remember the group of blind men trying to describe the elephant?

Ma'a salaam.

Answer 6

Everything comes down to the personal interpretation of the reader, once you remove yourself from the only authoritative source of interpretation, the Church Christ founded, which the Bible refers to as "the pillar and foundation of truth". No structure can stand, once removed from its pillars and foundation. That's what this biblical teaching means. And that is why the Church Christ founded remains steady and united after 2,000 years while manmade self-interpreting denominational religion continues to self-destruct into more and more conflicting sects after a few hundred years.

Answer 7

I do not see how anybody can read the Gospel of John right through and come to any other conclusion that that John regarded Jesus as divine. His very first chapter, in which the incarnate Christ is identified with the pre-existent Word, makes that pretty clear. To avoid that conclusion needs some pretty creative reinterpretation.

Answer 8

I'd say its all up to whether or not that particular ancient book is accurate. Ultimately, it's just some character in a book saying something - a person has to give it meaning above and beyond the printed words.

Answer 9

Man was cerated in the image of God right? Or so says scripture. Therefore to answer this qustion we must look at mankind.

mankind is triune: spirit, soul, and body

see here:

1 Thess 5:
23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So if man is triune so is God, since we are made in His image, and scripture backs up this trinity.

Now imagine if each part of you; spirit, soul, and body were given their own life. Wouldn't each part be still you? So it is with God. scripture even tells us that the Father and Jesus have their own life.

Joh 5:26
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath
he given to the Son to have life in himself;

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Answer 10

At our marriage my husband and I became one.
One as in the eyes of Jehovah.

Anyone seeing my son, has seen his father.
The two are so familiar in everything they do.

Jesus is the way or means of us all returning to theocratic rule. Jesus speaks the truth as opposed to Satan, the father of the lie. Jesus is the life, as we are all born in sin then our only hope for the future is death, Jesus is our only means of gaining perfection and returning to our original state of everlasting life.

No one comes to the father, Jehovah, except through the acceptance of Jesus and the shed blood of his ransom sacrifice.