Young liberal here: Why do we want Universal Healthcare?

Question

I am a liberal in high school, and have just begun to take an interest in politics. I was recently debating a conservative friend of mine (Yes, I have some), and when I said that health care costs are out of control, and too many people are uninsured, and that the government should pay for healthcare so that nobody would go without it, he came back with some pretty difficult points to refute. I would really like to know, how should I come back to these?...

1) The private sector is more efficient than the government, compare countries with planned economies with ours and they come up short.

2) The reason that costs are so high is because doctors don't have to compete for patients, because insurance companies pay for it all, so they can overcharge and most people don't know, except for the unlucky few without insurance.

These are just 2 of his points. Please help me with some refutes to these so I can debate him!

He cited john stossel's special on health care a lot. I've watched it, and I disagree with what he says, but I don't know how to argue it. Could some fellow liberals watch it and help me out?

Answer 1

We don't want anything to do with it. Peace

Answer 2

Competition between doctors would mean the end of useful medicine. If the competition became more important than the person being treated, then the patient will die more often.

The cause of the high cost of medical care is a multi headed problem.
1) Drug companies spend 85% of their research money finding ways to make minimal alterations to the existing medications so they have the same effects, but can be sold as a new overpriced drug. For 85% of new drugs on the market there is another drug that was new 2 years ago with identical effects and made by the same company.
2) Hospitals treat people who don't have insurance in emergency care rooms. That treatment is double the price that it would cost to pay for them at a private clinic. Those costs are passed on to the patients who do have insurance.
If your friend dares to suggest that poor people can go to emergency rooms, then ask your friend how it feels to contribute to the high costs of medicine.
3) Doctors often order the most expensive tests first in order to avoid lawsuits that sometimes come with the incorrect diagnosis that happen on a rare basis with less expensive tests.

People have trouble affording health care for also a lot of reasons and the points that you should stress:

1) There is a limit to health care plans. If for some reason my insurance company would go over the 2 million dollar policy while I have their plan, I'm a dead person as they won't pay anymore and no other health insurance will pay my bills.
Universal Healthcare wouldn't let me die like the insurance companies would.

2) Insurance companies try to price their plans above what sick people can pay. American Family Insurance has been urging me to drop coverage for costs related to my heart condition in exchange for a price I can easily pay. My death in exchange for a lower costing insurance bill. Universal Healthcare would treat me as long as I'm alive.

In reply to point number 1:
Our country has a substandard of healthcare. Only 85% of people have it. In countries with Universal Healthcare 100% of people are treated. The reason for the deficiencies in healthcare in other nations with Universal Healthcare is that 100% of people are able to schedule a doctor's appointment for the problems they have. If our country went to 100% treatment of everyone, then the number of doctor visits would double outright as people would go for the problems they have instead of the problems they can afford.
85% in this country that can only go to the doctor for some problems is not efficient at all.

Answer 3

The private sector is NOT more efficient than the government.

Medicare spends less than 5% of its intake on administrative expenses, while the average for private insurers is over 20%. This 20% is added on to the cost of every person's medical care.

Plus, if private companies are so efficient, why did we have to pay $950/day to hire Blackwater security guards after Katrina? We clearly could have used National Guard troops for essentially nothing. Don't you wonder why we didn't do that?


Point 2: What does insurance companies paying for something have to do with doctors competing? Competition exists no matter who is paying. In fact, very large payers (like Medicare) are able to negotiate far better deals than individuals. Look at a medical claim form sometime -- there will be a given price, and then there will be the volume discount negotiated by your insurance company -- and Medicare's volume discount is far larger than any private company's, simply because its volume is larger.

Answer 4

You can only win this argument in the minds of liberals. All you really need to do is say "Oh, yeah?" and that's about all there is to say.

Look at your question. "too many people are uninsured". Well, what's "too many"? Whenever you find yourself arguing to have government solve a problem that you can't even quantify, you have to be a liberal, and you'll never EVER convince anyone that has even one solid fact at his disposal. How many is too many? I assure you it will be "one" before the last liberal is satisfied.

You also claim health care costs are "out of control". Why is that a problem with health care but not with food, gasoline, or the cost of lawyers? Who do you think SHOULD be in control? The same people that run the IRS? The same people that run the war you probably don't like? The same people that kept the Branch Davidians under "control"?

How far will your "control" go? Will we reduce the cost of some pharmaceuticals by requiring people to give blood to make it?

Answer 5

well... what you have to realize is... this is a free market, and prices are based on the value of services in a free market...

what is your life worth to you?

that's the question that the free market asks many times in dealing with health care...

and most people say "anything, as long as I can stay alive"

how can a free market set a price on something that is "priceless" to most people?

it can't... and doesn't... and therefore fails in a free market... as our system clearly shows...

the number 2 point isn't correct... would you go to a "cheap doctor"... seriously? few I know would...

as for the number 1 point... the private sector is set to maximize profit... with an item that has a "priceless" value... see a problem there?
... also, look at the stats for "socialized healthcare"... price per person, where they rank in all the health indicators... the WHO has many studies

SIMPLY PUT... we pay twice as much for a service that, at best, is slightly better than other nations... on average...

is that "efficient"? why are other governments apparently offering more efficient services than our private sector?

because it's a "priceless", but necessary item... that's when a capitalist system breaks

EDIT: look at the "facts" that stosell cites... it will help you a lot... what few he does cite... and look at similar other stats... they don't stack up as favorably

Answer 6

1) In certain markets the private sector is more efficent, but the way health insurance works is that the policy holders pay into a big pool, the company takes a big slice to pay for administration and advertisement, then they try and prevent having to pay out for the policy holder as much as possible when healthcare is needed so they can pay profits to the shareholders. With government insurance the administrative costs are lower, there is no need to advertise, and there are no profits. This way the operation can be run much cheaper than a private company.

2) If you are sick, or in an accident, or dying, do you have the time to shop around for the cheapest doctor?

Answer 7

So the responsibility and cost of your life style decisions can be paid for by someone else.
1-Wrong, the same medical systems/process are used world wide who pays for them does not effect efficiency in any way. See the French system for socialized medicine at it's best. Also view Michal Moore's Sicko.

2-Wrong, cost's are high because doctors have a monopoly and people make really bad life style choices and get sick. They then panic and pay what ever it takes to be saved from their own stupidity.

Answer 8

john stossel is a right wing hack. Watching him is like watching Fox. Health care costs are the highest in the world in the US. Drug costs are the highest in the world. Why don't we live longer than people in other countries? Because 50 million people have no health care and many the ones that do can't afford to go to the doctor. I go to the doctor for a cold and get charged $100, and I have health insurance. So I usually don't go.

One of my daughters has just gone back to college to get a second degree, so she lost her health care. I'm sure she isn't counted as not having it.

A system like this certainly isn't the best, or one that should represent the values of America.

Barry - I am healthy, thanks for asking. I've been to the doctor once in the last five years.

Answer 9

No, but I can give more arguments against universal health care. Veterans , already are pretty close to "universal" health care already as there are 28 million of us. It is a disaster, and we often have to wait a month or more to see a doctor. When we finally do get to see one, often they dont speak very good english and are difficult to understand. We wait hours to get a prescription, while private pay people get prescriptions in minutes. There are many things unavailable with VA health care, such as natural health remedies..they force prescription drugs on us, with disastrous results. For example, people with high blood pressure can often treat it with diet, LArginine, and/or other natural meds. However, VA docs must prescribe chemical treatments that often have terrible side effects.

Answer 10

so Canada's econmy come up short,they have publicly funded healthcare.


spoken like a true conservative lttlhrs.don't care about the less fortunate only urself and other conservatives.so because of the guy who lost his liver by drinking to much we shouldn't have to help the other of thousands of people men ,women and children who have cancers and other deadly diseases .don't spend tax money on healthcare but spend 600 billions of dollars on war we shouldn't be in.


and also if u cons are so good chrisitians why u so against helping others?

give me thumbs down all u like.
but ur so good christians and holy,what do u have against paying taxes to help others,i mean its probably loose change to u guys anyways

Answer 11

"He cited john stossel's special on health care a lot. I've watched it, and I disagree with what he says, but I don't know how to argue it"

If you cannot argue it, could you cope with the idea that it might be true?

If your views are true, they shouldnt be that hard to prove!

Some people remain in political denial (it gets worse as you get old and hold the same beliefs). The sooner you accept other sides, and analyze them compared to the factual data you can find to support YOUR views, the better.