A friend told me she could prove God existed...?

Question

She basically said, "Paley's watch, Pascal's wager, and Einstein believed in God."

She's smart, rational, college-educated.

Are these "arguments" really sufficient for most believers?

Why is this one area of life rarely scrutinized?

Answer 1

It's because once people "believe" something it true they tend to stop being skeptical about it and look for or interpret things as being supportive of their belief. This is not limited to religion, we all do it in some regards in the political arena as well. Christianity has a double reinforcement of this as good things that happen to you are god's blessings and bad things are him trying to teach you something.

Answer 2

hmmmmm...

The "idea" of God is that He created everything that
is natural and the natrual has been corrupted so that
it is difficult to see God.

God is spirit, and God is preceived via spirit!

Science is only capable of studying the natural
and God is supernatural.

The first step is to realize all is not science - we have
ideas that do not fit into the realm of science, i.e.
philosophy, poetic literature, music, art, etc.

You can explain music in a scientific way - in sound
and mathematic symytry, but that does not fully explain
the life and love in music.

It is the same with the human body!
It is not merely physical.

God speaks to one's heart.

The only thing we can do is let down our defenses.
Let down our pride and false desire for self-sufficiency.
We Don't have to let down our intellect, only our
pride IN our intellect - then we can BEGIN to find
God - God speaks everywhere and in everything,
our minds and hearts are simply clouded over and
then we play these games with debate and excuses.

It is really a heart/spirit matter, not a head matter.

The head is only used as a tool to excuse away
God because of the condition of the heart.

Can we be moral w/o God?
Certainly.
It is because we follow a pattern after
which we were created, but not perfectly.

The main reason to follow God is b/c
God is the SOURCE and has the
answers - we, as humans are constantly
on the lookout for better answers and that
is God's purpose for us in life - for our
autonomy. There would be no reason to
seek autonomy without God, because
it would be futile without God.

Knowing God is about seeking ETERNAL
things instead of mere temporal things.
It's not about emotions, it is about what
is REAL and LASTING. It's about
finding the foundation of life vs. simply
seeking our own perceptions and ideas
that don't last and are imperfect.

When we were children, sometimes we
thought we were so smart, and we were
in some ways, but there were so many things
we needed to know! It is the same with
spiritual and eternal life. It is most
beneficial to be humble and not learn the
hard way. We are talking about the soul
that lives on, so that is the most important
investment in life! You can't prove it with
science - it is out of its scope. You can only
look around and in your heart and ask those
questions.

Good Luck!

Answer 3

I don't think these are adequate as proof of God, and most religious sorts feel that faith is more important than tangible proof, and that faith is rewarded, not one's own rational determination that God exists because of this and that.

Paley's watch is an argument for ideas similar to Spinoza's, that everything fits so perfectly, and thus, the universe was intelligently designed. This can be refuted with various other theories regarding the creation of the universe, and factors surrounding them. For example, some state that the reason Earth is so ordered is because of the fact that the universe was made and remade numerous times, and, _just_ this time, the random nature got it right.

Pascal's wager assumes God rewards people with faith, and there is no evidence for this, scientifically speaking. Scripturally, yes, but it's not adequate to prove god on scientific terms. I think the idea is that living as if God does exist is a safe bet, because if God exists, your gain is infinite. If you live as though God does not exist, but he does, your loss is infinite. If god doesn't exist, it doesn't matter whether you believe, because, in the afterlife, you'll be rewarded. This assumes, though, that God rewards solely on the basis of "Do you believe in Me?" and does not account for possible losses in experiences on earth caused by one's piety.

Einstein believed in Spinoza's God - that is, he believed that there was a being, or perhaps a consciousness, that revealed itself in the order and harmony of the world. He didn't believe in a god as a law-giver:

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."

Finally, the reason that this area of life is rarely scrutinized is probably because most intellectuals feel that it's impossible to attempt to reason somebody out of a position that they did reach through reason. If you feel that these reasons are enough for you to believe in God, because you already assume that faith is and should be rewarded, be happy. If you feel that these reasons are not enough to constitute a belief in God, well, it doesn't change your position, you believe, or you don't. Everyone wins, at least everyone that can understand these things and doesn't get angry and belligerent. ;)

Either way, I will always be an agnostic. Nobody can prove to me that God exists, and nobody can prove to me that God doesn't exist.

Also, a word to the other commenters, not to the OP: please do not try to support the existence of God by trying to disprove evolution. As it stands now, from a perfectly rational perspective, evolution is proven. My brain being ten percent larger than average, like Neanderthal man, the manifestation of autistic traits, and my positive reaction to a diet based on evolutionary medicine, is not proof, but a lot of supporting evidence.

Answer 4

we people separated God, we divided him into parts. and obviously there are some good reasons to do that.

we are people of different beliefs with different names of religions. if i come out of my religious educations & think in general i find myself as a human being, part of a vast universal world. one of my teachers said " come to learn, and when you have mastered, forget what you have learnt while taking an individual dicission." I have been fond of his voice. following his words i see, man are tought manners when a civilization badly goes wrong. time, place, people may be different, so trakes are seemed different but all that seems the same is the well wish for mankind. this is why no religion is against well being of mankind.

when i think this kind of thinking i say, religion is a truth. truth can not be more than one, so, may be we are still in process of seperating the truth.

Answer 5

This is still not proof. Everyone has a theory. but there is no proof.

The problem with Paley's analogy is that the belief that the universe shows orderliness and purpose is an assumption. One quality of a good analogical argument is that the characteristics cited as shared characteristics must be truly shared characteristics. If there is doubt that one of the items being compared (the universe) possesses the most significant shared characteristic (of being orderly and purposive), then the analogical argument is not a sound one.

Answer 6

these arguments are bad logic, it is called "Apealing to people" it doesn't matter what they thought!
the bible says god is real, and no one can prove the bible wrong, if the bible had been proved wrong ((one fourth)) as many times as evolution, it would have been cast out long ago.
tell me, how do 17 different amino acids link together by chance, to form a protein? not only do these 17 have to be the right kind, but they all have to be linked in a specific way , and this only forms a PROTEIN!! there are millions and millions and millions of other life forms formed with this little of a chance!! wow?!! how would this happen by chance?! you tell me how a bang could put together the world?! how? i dont understand how it could! except by a divine creator.
and one more thing, could a tornado go through a junkyard and make a car dealer- ship? this is only 1/100th of what ppl try to say evolution could do... puhleez

Answer 7

I don;t Know about Einstein or paley's watch, but pascals wager ? that is a child arguement, though their is a logic to it, it is a logic without any real faith.

I e-mailed you about this before, it is a knowing , that goes beyond these foolish things like Pascal wager, non-believers, have no concept of this. nor ar they able to.

Answer 8

Einstein believe in an abstract god. He believe god = everything in the universe. Its called pantheism.

Answer 9

I think it's because for some belief is a psychological issue, as opposed to an intellectual one. For someone who wants to believe, it's quite easy to justify belief with the same arguments that wouldn't convince someone like you or me.

Answer 10

I've also found that even the smartest, most educated Christians tend to dumb down their thinking become irrational when it comes to their religious beliefs. They take some things, like the existence of God, to be self-evident. In other words, they've made their assumption and they're sticking to it.